Eurth Map Rework

[Fubukino]

Oboi this looks like we are frequently riddled with eurthquakes. Would tsunamis be potentially a threat, too? In addition to hurricanes I think I would also get at times.....

 

DONT LET THIS DISTRACT YOU FROM THE FACT THAT OYUS IS THE PREMIERE TROPICAL TOURIST DESTINATION THAT CAN CONVENIENTLY HIDE YOUR MONEY!!

[Heiheguo]

2 hours ago, Oyus said:

Oboi this looks like we are frequently riddled with eurthquakes. Would tsunamis be potentially a threat, too? In addition to hurricanes I think I would also get at times.....

 

DONT LET THIS DISTRACT YOU FROM THE FACT THAT OYUS IS THE PREMIERE TROPICAL TOURIST DESTINATION THAT CAN CONVENIENTLY HIDE YOUR MONEY!!

So basically every RL tropical tourist destination :v

[Tagmatium Rules]

Now perhaps this is more of a question for @Metztlitlalio and @Eulycea than @Sunset Sea Islands and @Creaturae, but how much of an impact would living on the sides of, and in the shadow, of those giant mountains have on the countries there?

I imagine one of the main modes of travel will be the funicular, more than the mountain railway 😋

Presumably, it will have a massive impact on the local weather patterns, as well as one on the wider wurld's one.

[Sunset Sea Islands]

12 hours ago, Oyus said:

Would tsunamis be potentially a threat, too?

@Oyus might certainly be hit by tsunamis from time to time, but the @Gallambrian territories and @Seylos might have it worse. Same goes for islands on the @Little Flauton plate. Also, depending on their placement on the map, @Yeosan might also be hit from time to time, but I think the transformative line between the Adisi and the Fulgiotan plate might be less active than the one between the Dolch and the Adisi plate.

6 hours ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

funicular

Oh yes, gib, those things are great! The last time I rode one of these must have been in Hastings back in '15! Might even think how viable they would be for my country, since the capital slowly expands into the eastern mountains.

[Xio]

Cargo-carrying funiculars, now that'll be a sight to see. Although this does mean that I might need to rethink a few of my future plans involving shipping tens of thousands of city slum inhabitants to the rural areas (overgeneralised).

Edited February 24, 2020 by Metztlitlalio (see edit history)

[Seylos]

Right now in canon Seylos, Eire, and Ceris have been hit by a category 3 hurricane. So we definitely get the brunt of some tropical weather.

[Seylos]

Right now in canon Seylos, Eire, and Ceris have been hit by a category 3 hurricane. So we definitely get the brunt of some tropical weather.

[Heiheguo]

11 hours ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

Now perhaps this is more of a question for @Metztlitlalio and @Eulycea than @Sunset Sea Islands and @Creaturae, but how much of an impact would living on the sides of, and in the shadow, of those giant mountains have on the countries there?

I imagine one of the main modes of travel will be the funicular, more than the mountain railway 😋

Presumably, it will have a massive impact on the local weather patterns, as well as one on the wider wurld's one.

Well, the rain shadows on these mountain ranges would be pretty massive. Very, very dry. Not necessarily hot, though.

Something sort-of related that I never really touched on in my versions of the climate map (I don't know if @Metztlitlalio really took this into consideration, but he might have) is the influence altitude has on climate. The Artifexian video on climate that I mainly used as reference for Eurth says to just ignore tall mountains, since attitudinal climate variation, from what I've researched, complicates the process. He only covers everything below 800 meters and simply greys out anything taller than that. I believe in my versions of the climate map, I ignored everything above 2000 meters. If I didn't, basically the entire map would be grey-ed out space with no assigned climate. Eurth is really tall.

In the next version of the climate map, along with changing the temperature to match @Metztlitlalio's map, me and him will probably have to do some more research into attitudinal climate variation to make this next map even more accurate than the ones before it.

[Heiheguo]

Also, not so much related to discussion on climate, but what do you guys think about me changing the name of this topic to something like "Eurth Map Rework"? The map is certainly getting some major updates as of late, and this seems to be where most of that is discussed and shared.

[Tagmatium Rules]

Yeah. It's for the best.

[Xio]

👏 Climate Gang Update 👏

NOTE: Everything in this post is NOT FINAL. It is meant to be discussed and changed, nothing here is finalised.

Due to all the climate rework and map reworks, the maps we currently use have large discrepancies between them - such as island chains missing or moved. As such for the past couple weeks, I, @Sunset Sea Islands, @Heiheguo, and @Orioni have been working on producing a large range of maps that will be consistent, coherent, and easily readable. Although we haven't been private about our current project we believe now is a good time to be completely open and show what we have made so far as part of an act of transparency, and allow for those who disagree to have their voices heard and acknowledged before it becomes unmanageable. So far we have a new blank map of Eurth (see below), which is something we have been sorely needing for several months now. Using this map the differences made are more obvious. Each change shown on the rework map that's labelled will be given their own short paragraph on why we made those decisions.

Annoyingly this post was meant to come out *before* Orioni posted the new map into the changelogs but due to mixed messages he posted it before hand. So if anyone would like changes to be done to the map we would happily amend the changelog.

"Why was Marenesia packed in together?"
This was done mostly by SSI and thus I believe it would only be right for SSI to be the one to explain his reasoning:

Quote

"Island placement/size didn't make sense at all. Islands are either created through tectonics (e.g. Galahinda) or through volcanic hotspots (e.g. Kualoa, Marenesia Minor). Thalassa couldn't be explained through either of these factors. A geographically logical Thalassa is mostly empty. the new layout makes much more sense."

Of course this may be the most controversial change of the map, so we are very willing to accommodate for any nations based in Marenesia which wish to voice their complaints to have their island moved back to it's original location.
 

"Why was the Manamana isthmus shrunk?"
The Manamana isthmus was shrunk in order to make the Manamana canal more viable. I should state however that SSI had no part in the decision for this change except the final nod of approval. The thickness of the isthmus is still larger then that of the Panama isthmus so that historically a canal from the Manamana bay into the Adlantic would of been impossible, and only now with modern equipment would it be possible - albeit incredibly expensive. Initially there was also plans to shrink the isthmus between the Mediargic and Canamo Sea to allow for a realistic canal placement for @Prymont, but that would of required Dniester to be severely reduced in size. Those who reside in that part of Argis can decide amongst each other the best course of action - either to change isthmus or to keep it the same.

 

"What's with the changes to the islands in the Adlantic?"
With a newly reworked tectonic plate map based off SSI's proposal, it was seen as important to make the wurld's island distribution less chaotic. At first that might sound stupid, but if you look at the real world many islands follow island chains such as the Caribbean, Pacific ring of fire, and even the pacific ocean islands - which are loosely in a chain going east to west. Islands held by @Oyus, @Galahinda, @Gallambria have not been moved.

 

"What happened to Marenesia?"
It was Orioni's decision for the introduction of a Marenesia-Europan island bridge, as such it'll be best for him to explain why;

Quote

Marenesia always served as a bridge between the old and new world. To lend more credebility to this lore, the southern Europan and northern Marenesian islands were connected more directly.

The islands also line up with the tectonic boundary between Marenesia Major and Marenesia Minor as well as serves for a location for possible expansion for nations in Marenesia or southern Europa. @Kualoa and the Marenesia Minor islands were shrunken down as to increase the range of island sizes on Eurth - giving more variability - as well as making their formation from volcanic hotspots more credible. We felt confident in shrinking the islands as Kualoa has been inactive since September 15, 2017 and following protocol should of had their nation removed by now.

 

"Why remove unnecessary islands? Every island is special in their own unique way!"
It looked weird on a globe and it's placement meant that the likelihood of someone wanting to expand onto it was unlikely. If it makes you feel any better the island(s) that were there were shrunken and moved around the globe to be used in other locations. Rest in peace Frisland.

"Why is Antargis different?"
The changes to Antargis may be the largest physical change in on the map and most likely the one to be rejected by the community. But just seeing side-by-side images of the old and new Antargis can show our reasons very clearly:

  ⬅️Old Antargis | New Antargis ➡️  

Old Antargis is ugly. On a more serious note, the completely different Antargis will require nations who own bases in Antargis to have to reposition their bases (or we can try place them in a location as close to the original as possible). However, this can also be used as a time of rethinking and trying out ideas you never had the opportunity to try. New Antargis also doesn't have the issues that Old Antargis did where most of it's coastline was habitable due to being too large - which is why New Antargis is smaller. However, part of the New Antargis coastline will still remain habitable, as unlike Earth's Antarctica which is positioned in such a way as to not have warm currents from lower latitudes reach the continent, Antargis is linked with the wurld's global current systems. This can either be ignored or we can use this unique situation to our advantage and allow for small colonies along the habitable portions of the coastline. Once again, this is up to those who have an interest in the continent and if they accept the changes.

 

Tectonic Plates Map

The names used in the new tectonic plate map are temporary and are only there to help identify key locations and boundaries. If anyone has better names for tectonic plates please post them in this thread. Below is the old tectonic plate map for comparisons:

 

Each plate was created for a purpose, but due to oddities in the topography of Eurth many odd tectonic plates had to be constructed. An example of this is the Ragan and Suverin plates. The two minor plates were placed there to counter the collision of the Adlantic and Europan plates which would of caused the formation of Himalayan-like mountains. As @Tagmatium Rules plans to expand into the unclaimed region there, it would be unfair to him to suddenly put a large mountain range and destroy a large chunk of his history. For opposite reasons the Argic plate was split between the Argis and Arcto plates so that Prymont's northern mountains remain intact. The Tiauhai and Flauton plates in SSI's proposal was one single plate, however it had to be cut in half so that @Andalla's request could be achieved. The Hekla plate has no reason to exist other then to further my tectonic plate fetish of the Scotia Plate. The new tectonic boundaries also help highlight the new island chains (Marenesia-Marenesia, Adisi-Meso, Adisi-Fulgiotan, Adisi-Marenesia, Dolch-Adlantic, etc.). I should apologise to Prymont, Oyus, @Yeosan, @Greater Serbia as realistically earthquakes and volcanoes may become an issue in your nations. However as it's not up to me to decide what happens in your nations - feel free to ignore any tectonic hazards you like.

 

Continental Shelf Map

The most useless and useful map so far, the continental shelf map. Regions with large continental shelving tend to have higher abundance of fish, so if your nation is meant to be well known for it's open ocean fishing and you lack sufficient continental shelving for the type of fish you fish, feel free to show us how you would like it to be amended. The large continental shelving in eastern Alharu, phantom islands in Marenesia and it's landbridges are there to help further emphasis the ice age migration of Europans into the New Wurld.

 

End Product Map

Sadly we currently do not have a map of just the topography yet but here is a map of all the changes in one. No topography within a person's nation was changed besides @Lusotropia, @Kaitaine, and @Yeosan. The largest changes were in central Alharu, where the highlands were reduced in size and made accurate to their real-life counterparts (East African Rift Valley). Due to all the changes, rivers had to be tweaked subtly. So if you wish to fully detail out your river system, now would be a good time to do so (See Heiheguo's river system).

 

Other
There are of course some things we still need to work on. Using our current knowledge we have plans for the creation of two separate climate maps; One that is easily readable with basic names such as 'jungle' or 'desert', and another that uses an in-depth version of the Köppen climate classification system. The more in-depth version will be designed using two global air current circulation map like the ones below as well as using a more detailed ocean currents map (also below).

    

  

On the left is the complex ocean currents and on the right are the simplistic ocean currents.

Lastly with the help of other staff members, all inactive nations will begin to go through a process which determines if they should remain on the map, be reworked, shrunken, or deleted. However this last part is uncertain and will only be achieved once all the pieces are in place. We hope for further transparency in the future and that these maps are not too controversial.

Edited May 11, 2020 by Metztlitlaca (see edit history)

[Fubukino]

8 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

Initially there was also plans to shrink the isthmus between the Mediargic and Canamo Sea to allow for a realistic canal placement for @Prymont, but that would of required Dniester to be severely reduced in size. Those who reside in that part of Argis can decide amongst each other the best course of action - either to change isthmus or to keep it the same.

Arguably, with so little done canonically speaking, I'm sure few revisions would need to be made and concessions of some sort can be made to Dniester if necessary and seemingly agreeable.

8 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

I should apologise to Prymont, Oyus, @Yeosan, @Greater Serbia as realistically earthquakes and volcanoes may become an issue in your nations. However as it's not up to me to decide what happens in your nations - feel free to ignore any tectonic hazards you like.

I'm likely to accept these though one question that sticks is given how faults and volcanoes seem to work (to the best of my knowledge) arguably my topography might be somewhat different than where it stands especially given I'm at the intersection of not two but three tectonic plates on my principal isle. I'd also imagine that could change climate somewhat too. Going from no volcano to earthquakes and lava sounds like something that would have some sort of affect on that. If any of my assessments are completely illogical and nonsensical feel free to spare me and explain why. I'm not a science major (or any major but especially a science one) for a reason.

If I could be allowed some room to gripe I suppose it would be that while I'm glad to have something closer to me to expand to I'm not sure I enjoy the idea of islands that realistically would be close enough for me to have had in the first place suddenly popping up seemingly out of nowhere and I'd honestly had hoped for islands a little further way deep in the Adisi perhaps.

In the end I'll do what I am required to do in order to have ownership over the new opportunities but to say I am not a little frustrated at where they landed would be a lie. In addition I don't exactly expect new isles to be added just because lil ol me is mad you changed things to be more realistic and cannot gripe too much considering I did not realistically expect to have any new Isles pop up close to me to begin with.

I am going to have a better look and ponder more about the new changes when I get home tonight and make a post about anything that comes to mind at that time. It's better when you're not crunched for time while determined to make some sort of reply to this.

[Heiheguo]

To gather up everyone's thoughts on the current reworks, here's a questionnaire!

https://forms.gle/dvGDwf1Yo9uETSTD9

Feel free to continue discussing the changes here and on the Discord. This Google form just helps us gauge the current responses and thoughts to what we've done so far. 

[Tagmatium Rules]

We've been talking in the Christian lore chat about closing the gap between Europa and Argis to make it easier (or, rather, not impossible) for groups to come across to Argis a bit earlier.

If either Adaptus' northern island is edged west a bit or another island or group of islands is added between, it would allow people to have headed across a bit earlier, therefore making the early dates for Christianity in, for example, @Greater Serbia and @Grenesia more viable.

It would still likely make it a bloody hard trip but something like the Norse going to Iceland and Greenland, rather than Columbus reaching America centuries ahead of time.

This way, monks and hermits could then spread Christianity down the coast to reach central Argis at the point necessary for those countries' histories to make sense.

I think the gap needs to be about one thousand(ish) miles per "hop", as that's roughly the distance from Scandinavia to Iceland and then to Greenland.

I hope that makes sense.

[Xio]

👏 Climate Gang Update 2: Island Boogaloo 👏

NOTE: Everything in this post is NOT FINAL. It is meant to be discussed and changed, nothing here is finalised.
NOTE 2: If you are involved in the 3rd Antargic Council Meeting, read the paragraph below in red.

Of the five (four) people who filled out the Eurth Map Revisions Feedback Form, it was primarily split between an update every week or every two weeks - so we will try to push out one of these every 1-2 weeks depending on how much we have done. Currently we are on Draft V2.3 taking on feedback and criticism by those who filled out the form, replied to this thread, or had asked in direct messages to Climate Group members. As done before we will split up each change into it's own categories; this time they are "Created" "Changed/Moved" and "Sunken/Removed". Below are two maps; one of all changes and one that is a generic blank map of Eurth. It should also be stated the way we conduct ourselves has also changed with a new 3-step minmum approval policy. Before any new changes can be added onto a new version of the map they must first be approved within the Climate Group private chat, then brought to those who are directly affected by the changes for confirmation/edits/declination. If those who are affected confirm the new changes and/or the changes are changed to better suit the those affected, the new compromised version is then returned back to the CG group for one final confirmation. This ensures maximum clarity and communication within the group, although does slow down time between versions.

Green - Created
Red - Changed and/or Moved
Blue - Sunken and/or Removed



Created

Most new land created was primarily near the equator and near the Adisi Ocean. The @Oyus island chain was completely reworked with more uniquely designed islands and with said islands at a further distance from Oyus. Several smaller islands were also placed in the Adisi ocean for possible expansion plans for those who border the Adisi Ocean. @Yeosan was contacted about the new islands and he was positive with the changes.

From what was said in the Eurth Map Revisions Feedback Form and in the Discord, the Manamana Isthmus change was rather controversial with an equal split between preferring the new Manamana Isthmus and the old Manamana Isthmus. As such we've decided to compromise on the situation by increasing the width of the isthmus to an average width between the original and Version 1.

White - Version 1
Light Green - Version 2.3
Dark Green - Initial Thickness

Like last draft, there will be a Feedback Form after a couple days, with a couple questions regarding the Manamana Isthmus.

 

Changed and/or Moved

As per expected, there are several islands that have been moved around as per request/decision making. Several islands were moved from the initial Oyus island chain into the Adisi Ocean as requested to allow for more varied expansion by those surrounding the ocean or had historically owned territory in the region. Most likely this will affect @Gallambria, @Oyus, and @Limonaia the most although said affect might be minimal/pre-expected.

An island that is currently controlled by the now-inactive @Adaptus (Last online 18th May, 2019) was requested to be moved towards the middle of Occident Europa and Eastern Argis by @Tagmatium Rules as part of the recent Christian Lore Task Force (#bless)'s attempts at unifying the lore around Christianity on Eurth. The island's historic (new) placement would allow for ships from the Occident to reach Argis far earlier then in real life. The closest distance from Occident to Little Adapty (That's what I'm calling the island until someone corrects me) is 826 miles (1,330km). And the closest distance from Little Adapty to Argis is 491 miles (789km) if we allow for the usage of minor islands near the larger landmasses. A direct route from Little Adapty to Argis is 610 miles (981km)

   

Compared to the initial jump from Europa to Little Atapty of 451 miles (726km) and then from Little Atapty to Argis of 989 Miles (1,592km). Both versions equal 2288km, but the newer version reduces the ranges and allows for more realistic travel times by boat. For an example, a straight line from Iceland to Greenland is 733 miles (1179km). This still puts at least one of the journeys on either version outside that limit, but i'll leave the Christian Lore Task Force (#bless) to figure that out. Either to continue to adjust the location of the island or to add another island as part of a chain.

Below is where I would personally suggest an island*
*Has not been reviewed by the GC nor CLTF

 

Removed or Sunken

Only several locations have been removed as this is the most controversial part of any design update. The least controversial will be the removal of "Generic_Island_01" from Oyus' island chain and instead replaced with the far more interesting island south of Yeosan's island. Another island removed is in the far north near Argis, which would be very unlikely to ever see action and reduces the overall emptiness of the map. It's location means it would most likely just be apart of the greater North Pole ice sheets.

Below is a picture of a minor change to Argis as requested by @Prymont to allow for his canal to be more realistic (i.e. - cheaper). Contact of @North Dniester through Discord was unsuccessful so I could not ask his permission/opinion on the matter. The extended Canamo Sea follows his northern border with no reduction to his nation's size.

Antargis' Aurelia-centred peninsula has been reduced in it's height to allow for it's ocean currents and that of Aurelia to remain distinct with only a small amount of circulation between them. This means that Antargis' ocean currents remained locked to it's continent primarily and reinforces the colder temperatures - similar to the real life Antarctica - keeping it uninhabitable. On the topic of Antargis...

 

Antargis Appeal - Important!

We required those who's RPs are tied with Antargis to provide feedback on the new continent. So far we have had zero responses and yet those involved who are willing to voice their opinions call us out on bad communication. As such I am stating this is our final draft on Antargis unless someone from the 3rd Antargic Council Meeting states they are unhappy with the changes and provides (constructive) criticism or requests for the changes to be reverted. We are happy to revert any changes any members feel are too intrusive or a worse then their initial versions. But we cannot *know* if people feel as though these changes are for the worse if they refuse to provide us with complaints or criticism. We were initially planning to [@] all members involved in the 3rd Antargis Council Meeting but we decided against doing so.

We do not wish to cause a confrontation between members, but we cannot continue to let this drag us without a known conclusion. This decision was agreed upon by Orioni.

 

Other Changes

The war for what to call the tectonic plate to the east of the Marenesia Plate continues to rage on. "Oceanesia" is the current working title, but if anyone has an idea for a better name or prefers a name from above please state so in a reply on either here or on the Discord. After talking to Oyus we came to agree to leave the tectonic boundary as is, same with Tagmatium. If anyone wishes for their position near/on a tectonic plate to change please state so. Also; you are of course allowed to ignore any tectonic hazards that might occur in your nation due to the changes as with anything provided here - we are not the ones with the final say in your country.

Well I mean, technically Orioni and the admins do if they believe you are going too far. But that's besides the point.

 

 

Ocean currents remain relatively the same except with the reduction in currents mixing between Aurelia and Antargis. Friendly reminder that if you are close to the equator and have a warm current at your coastlines you can (realistically - up to you) have large expanses of coral reefs if you also have large regions of continental shelving. Continental shelves were not changed from the previous version except to accommodate the new/moved/removed landmasses. Prymont's continental shelving was extended slightly to be inline with the larger tectonic plate (and to allow for more fishing).

 

Conclusion

Although the first version came out on rocky terms and issues regarding communication, we have strived for this next version to be more transparent with the community and directly involving the members with more of the precise changes. Of course there is still much to do regarding both our quality of communication and the maps, but we hope that in the end everyone will come out of this happier and more satisfied with their countries and the wurld as a whole then when we started.

In 2-3 days time, we will be releasing a second questionnaire regarding these proposed changes and to give you enough time to come to some conclusions about the proposal. If all goes well we will be able to begin work on the climate maps and as well join up with members of the community directly to begin work on maps for historic migration, modern day cultures, and distribution of cultures. But all in due time.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Metztlitlaca
Grammar (see edit history)

[Prymont]

I'm not entirely against the idea of reducing Antargis in size as it will still be hospitable through research stations but I don't know why we need to drastically change how it looks other than "ew it's ugly". Perhaps some better reasoning would change my mind but as it stands, I'm for a size reduction of current Antargis.

Additionally we don't need warm currents for colonies either. Beyond research facilities nobody has mentioned a desire for this in the OOC or IC threads, but I don't know how much this would affect ocean currents for something that isn't currently a major issue.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Prymont (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

9 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

👏 Climate Gang Update 2: Island Boogaloo 👏

NOTE: Everything in this post is NOT FINAL. It is meant to be discussed and changed, nothing here is finalised.
NOTE 2: If you are involved in the 3rd Antargic Council Meeting, read the paragraph below in red.

Of the five (four) people who filled out the Eurth Map Revisions Feedback Form, it was primarily split between an update every week or every two weeks - so we will try to push out one of these every 1-2 weeks depending on how much we have done. Currently we are on Draft V2.3 taking on feedback and criticism by those who filled out the form, replied to this thread, or had asked in direct messages to Climate Group members. As done before we will split up each change into it's own categories; this time they are "Created" "Changed/Moved" and "Sunken/Removed". Below are two maps; one of all changes and one that is a generic blank map of Eurth. It should also be stated the way we conduct ourselves has also changed with a new 3-step minmum approval policy. Before any new changes can be added onto a new version of the map they must first be approved within the Climate Group private chat, then brought to those who are directly affected by the changes for confirmation/edits/declination. If those who are affected confirm the new changes and/or the changes are changed to better suit the those affected, the new compromised version is then returned back to the CG group for one final confirmation. This ensures maximum clarity and communication within the group, although does slow down time between versions.

Green - Created
Red - Changed and/or Moved
Blue - Sunken and/or Removed



Created

Most new land created was primarily near the equator and near the Adisi Ocean. The @Oyus island chain was completely reworked with more uniquely designed islands and with said islands at a further distance from Oyus. Several smaller islands were also placed in the Adisi ocean for possible expansion plans for those who border the Adisi Ocean. @Yeosan was contacted about the new islands and he was positive with the changes.

From what was said in the Eurth Map Revisions Feedback Form and in the Discord, the Manamana Isthmus change was rather controversial with an equal split between preferring the new Manamana Isthmus and the old Manamana Isthmus. As such we've decided to compromise on the situation by increasing the width of the isthmus to an average width between the original and Version 1.

White - Version 1
Light Green - Version 2.3
Dark Green - Initial Thickness

Like last draft, there will be a Feedback Form after a couple days, with a couple questions regarding the Manamana Isthmus.

 

Changed and/or Moved

As per expected, there are several islands that have been moved around as per request/decision making. Several islands were moved from the initial Oyus island chain into the Adisi Ocean as requested to allow for more varied expansion by those surrounding the ocean or had historically owned territory in the region. Most likely this will affect @Gallambria, @Oyus, and @Limonaia the most although said affect might be minimal/pre-expected.

An island that is currently controlled by the now-inactive @Adaptus (Last online 18th May, 2019) was requested to be moved towards the middle of Occident Europa and Eastern Argis by @Tagmatium Rules as part of the recent Christian Lore Task Force (#bless)'s attempts at unifying the lore around Christianity on Eurth. The island's historic (new) placement would allow for ships from the Occident to reach Argis far earlier then in real life. The closest distance from Occident to Little Adapty (That's what I'm calling the island until someone corrects me) is 826 miles (1,330km). And the closest distance from Little Adapty to Argis is 491 miles (789km) if we allow for the usage of minor islands near the larger landmasses. A direct route from Little Adapty to Argis is 610 miles (981km)

   

Compared to the initial jump from Europa to Little Atapty of 451 miles (726km) and then from Little Atapty to Argis of 989 Miles (1,592km). Both versions equal 2288km, but the newer version reduces the ranges and allows for more realistic travel times by boat. For an example, a straight line from Iceland to Greenland is 733 miles (1179km). This still puts at least one of the journeys on either version outside that limit, but i'll leave the Christian Lore Task Force (#bless) to figure that out. Either to continue to adjust the location of the island or to add another island as part of a chain.

Below is where I would personally suggest an island*
*Has not been reviewed by the GC nor CLTF

 

Removed or Sunken

Only several locations have been removed as this is the most controversial part of any design update. The least controversial will be the removal of "Generic_Island_01" from Oyus' island chain and instead replaced with the far more interesting island south of Yeosan's island. Another island removed is in the far north near Argis, which would be very unlikely to ever see action and reduces the overall emptiness of the map. It's location means it would most likely just be apart of the greater North Pole ice sheets.

Below is a picture of a minor change to Argis as requested by @Prymont to allow for his canal to be more realistic (i.e. - cheaper). Contact of @North Dniester through Discord was unsuccessful so I could not ask his permission/opinion on the matter. The extended Canamo Sea follows his northern border with no reduction to his nation's size.

Antargis' Aurelia-centred peninsula has been reduced in it's height to allow for it's ocean currents and that of Aurelia to remain distinct with only a small amount of circulation between them. This means that Antargis' ocean currents remained locked to it's continent primarily and reinforces the colder temperatures - similar to the real life Antarctica - keeping it uninhabitable. On the topic of Antargis...

 

Antargis Appeal - Important!

We required those who's RPs are tied with Antargis to provide feedback on the new continent. So far we have had zero responses and yet those involved who are willing to voice their opinions call us out on bad communication. As such I am stating this is our final draft on Antargis unless someone from the 3rd Antargic Council Meeting states they are unhappy with the changes and provides (constructive) criticism or requests for the changes to be reverted. We are happy to revert any changes any members feel are too intrusive or a worse then their initial versions. But we cannot *know* if people feel as though these changes are for the worse if they refuse to provide us with complaints or criticism. We were initially planning to [@] all members involved in the 3rd Antargis Council Meeting but we decided against doing so.

We do not wish to cause a confrontation between members, but we cannot continue to let this drag us without a known conclusion. This decision was agreed upon by Orioni.

 

Other Changes

The war for what to call the tectonic plate to the east of the Marenesia Plate continues to rage on. "Oceanesia" is the current working title, but if anyone has an idea for a better name or prefers a name from above please state so in a reply on either here or on the Discord. After talking to Oyus we came to agree to leave the tectonic boundary as is, same with Tagmatium. If anyone wishes for their position near/on a tectonic plate to change please state so. Also; you are of course allowed to ignore any tectonic hazards that might occur in your nation due to the changes as with anything provided here - we are not the ones with the final say in your country.

Well I mean, technically Orioni and the admins do if they believe you are going too far. But that's besides the point.

 

 

Ocean currents remain relatively the same except with the reduction in currents mixing between Aurelia and Antargis. Friendly reminder that if you are close to the equator and have a warm current at your coastlines you can (realistically - up to you) have large expanses of coral reefs if you also have large regions of continental shelving. Continental shelves were not changed from the previous version except to accommodate the new/moved/removed landmasses. Prymont's continental shelving was extended slightly to be inline with the larger tectonic plate (and to allow for more fishing).

 

Conclusion

Although the first version came out on rocky terms and issues regarding communication, we have strived for this next version to be more transparent with the community and directly involving the members with more of the precise changes. Of course there is still much to do regarding both our quality of communication and the maps, but we hope that in the end everyone will come out of this happier and more satisfied with their countries and the wurld as a whole then when we started.

In 2-3 days time, we will be releasing a second questionnaire regarding these proposed changes and to give you enough time to come to some conclusions about the proposal. If all goes well we will be able to begin work on the climate maps and as well join up with members of the community directly to begin work on maps for historic migration, modern day cultures, and distribution of cultures. But all in due time.

If another island makes more sense, then please do add it.

Great work, though!

[Haruspex]

Voted, I rather like the old map, but both are quite good. 

[Heiheguo]

Time for another google form questionnaire for feedback!

https://forms.gle/sWAauvaRNqBDdsHJ7

[Tagmatium Rules]

7 hours ago, Heiheguo said:

Time for another google form questionnaire for feedback!

https://forms.gle/sWAauvaRNqBDdsHJ7

Done!

Thanks!

[Xio]

👏 Climate Gang Update 3: 2 Fast 2 Furious 👏

So I'd like the begin this will an apology for lack of updates from the group. Many of us have been busy irl and unable to contribute to the project. Hopefully in the near future we can get back on our feet. There were only four people who actually did the questionnaire, so the QnA for this update will be small, along with changes made. Firstly I would like to introduce map V3.0 and all the changes done to it from V2.3. I should also say the vote on Antargis is over, with just under 74% voting in favour of the new design over the old.

 

-Fjallshima and Esonice were reverted to their original spots, don't know why they were changed - most likely an error on our part.

-Inland seas added back to Alharu, they were always returning but temporarily removed to help with modifying terrain. We considered changing them to align more closely with topography shown in Version 1 but the cost-benefits would be minimal.

-An island was moved to aid Little Adapty with the bridge from Europa to Argis.

  (From Iceland to Greenland is 1179 km.)

 

-A new inland sea was added to Europe at the request of @Gallambria for the second nation he is working on (Bashan) which defines the southern border of Bashan (green) and the northern border of the NPC Qubdi (red).

 

 

QnA time! - The first question was an actual question asked, the ones after are to help with clarification.

"[Regarding Antargis] Is it all coastline? Or is pack ice included?"
The current Antargis continent is just the landmass until a climate map is resolved. If you require ice shelves for something, they are most likely to form in the gulfs and bays within Antargis.

"Who has the final decision on my country's climate?"
You! If you don't like any of the proposed climates for your nation and/or you wish to remain with your current climate, that is 100% okay and the end product climate map will accommodate for that whether it's realistic or not. Our goal isn't to force changes upon people but to aid in standardising the current maps and adding more realism when possible to make things less confusing for newer members. The latter may not be obvious now but our end product maps will be designed in such a way as to be easily readable and understood to those who don't know much about the subject of climates / continental shelves / etc.

"I still don't like the new Antargis! My science base will have to move now!"
Although no one has stated this outright, the next couple days will be the last time to say anything related to your positions on Antargis. If you feel strongly against the new Antargis due to your plans to set up a Military or Scientific base on Antargis (or planning to) in a specific location, we will happily stitch the old part of the coastline your military base was/will be on to the new map in as close to it's original location as possible. As stated above our goal isn't to force changes which is why this option is open. But you *will* need to tell us soon as this is the final draft (unless someone asks for an island / remove an island / ask for changes) that will be shown to the public until we have drafts for climates and the like ready.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Metztlitlaca (see edit history)

[Anatea]

Hello all! ^^

I would have a liiiiittle request for a little part of the map

If would be possible to move the big island near the anatean penisula from here

to there:

mostly because i just want a lil island for an rp reason (have an only island military base/secret military base for one of my sub-plots of my country) and mostly cause the island there wouldn't fit so well, when instead if put near the other one already existing is more fitting because it seems a fractured island

Of course i'm aware that relocating that island would remove some territory from my nation, but i'm oke with that so i don't have problems nor i don't want to have so much land at the beginning  

[Salvia]

Been a while since anybody has talked about climate - I think @Metztlitlaca's compromise really worked!  I just have one request specific to the climatologists (Metz and @Heiheguo), would it be possible to have the entire Salvian peninsula as Csa?  As it stands, only a bit less than half is is right now while I'd like it to extend farther south and west.  Would this be possible?

Edited August 25, 2020 by Salvia (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

2 hours ago, Salvia said:

Been a while since anybody has talked about climate - I think @Metztlitlaca's compromise really worked!  I just have one request specific to the climatologists (Metz and @Heiheguo), would it be possible to have the entire Salvian peninsula as Csa?  As it stands, only a bit less than half is is right now while I'd like it to extend farther south and west.  Would this be possible?

Gosh.

Demanding.

[Xio]

Climate Gang Three: 4 Faster 4 Furiouser

Last post, 17th of June. Yikes. Welp, time to get this show on the road. Since the previous post, the main push within the group is to get a complex global Eurth climate map draft completed. And im happy to say, we finally have one!

The new climate bands and biomes were built from the ground up using both the warmer and cooler climate maps as references along with an ocean current map, along with a basic atmospheric pressure map. Borders for nations were also added to make discerning your nation's climate clearer. In total, this new draft has 4x the detail/pixels as the first climate maps.

To make life easier, ill be tackling each continent one by one and explaining why the climates are the way they are. At the bottom of this post will be a questionnaire provided by the wonderful @Heiheguo. We would be very grateful if you filled out the questionnaire - its only two questions - especially if you're unhappy with your climates. Of course if you are dissatisfied/annoyed at the new climate draft map, do tell us either here or on the Discord so we can make changes and pass them to you for final verification for the final climate version. Once a final complex climate map is complete, we will then create a simplified version using terminology more people will understand (e.g. "Rainforests" "Savannahs" "Forests" etc.).

Note: these maps use the Köppen climate classification system. So if you don't know what a certain colour means, just click the link to the left.

 

Argis 
   
New Version (Left) vs Old Version (Right)

Argis was probably the most controversial continent when it came to climate mapping, as replies and comments from the first version Heiheguo posted can reveal. The continent had become largely Siberian and tundra with minimal living space. The warm climate version did attempt to fix this but there were still many issues regarding member's preferred climates. This time we attempted to maximise member happiness over realism, but thankfully we were able to have both!

@Seylos had previously mentioned his desire for Seylos to have a Floridian-style climate, and so his islands were mapped to Florida-like climates, using his warmer ocean currents on his southern coast to be the most wet and tropical. @Sayf was also given his Mediterranean climate from the warmer climate version. Overall we tried to maintain the warm climates of southern Argis.

 

@Ivericaexplicitly stated not to use their IIwiki climate map as a reference, so we went for realism using his currents and pressure patterns. Initially we had @Prymontand Prymontian Rus as entirely Subarctic Climate, but in the discord he showed dissatisfaction but also stated with his canal he did not mind his northern seas being iced in, and thus we changed Prymontian Rus and southern Prymont to a more continental_climate. @Ahranaand @North Dniestermaintained generic continental climate due to the inability to contact and also limited information on their nations on our behalf. @Galahindaremains the same as well with a warm continental climate so they don't get frostbites from their lack of clothing.

Overall, I feel as though Argis turn out well, but I also expect quite a few replies for tweaks and changes. So who knows...

 

Alharu & Western Thalassa
   

Alharu has probably had the biggest change out of any continents (besides Argis), primarily to do with the Paran Desert / Central Alharun Desert. The desert has shrunken partially due to a higher temperate of the planet means heat different between the continental land and the surrounding ocean changes much more throughout the year, resulting in hotter - less dense - air over Alharu in the summer, meaning the hot dry air rises and colder wet air from the surrounding oceans and southern Alharu rush up to fill the pressure difference, bringing rain to the southern fringes of the desert, this is also why there is a transitional subtropical climate on the desert fringes in the south. This doesn't effect many nations as Heiheguo remained as a desert and those who are effected are inactive (@Cashar/@Kaitaine/@Lusotropia/etc.) and many have been designated for deletion already.

@Eulyceaand northern Mesothalassa's desert climate remains strong due to the large mountain ranges caused by the collision of the Alharun and Aureliean continental plates. These mountains are tall and dry in a tropical climate, giving them characteristics of Mediterranean climates (which can be seen in the real world, such as parts of Afghanistan). In reality, they probably should of been given Dsa climates similar to Turkey and parts of the Rockies, which might be changed for the final version. They also may be given ET at their highest peaks similar to the Himalayas. @Yeosan's climate has largely remained the same, just with his mountain's having a bigger effect on the island. @Faramount's climate also remains similar to the old climate version, just the rainforests shrunken due to Yeosan's island blocking wind and ocean currents.

@Fulgistanhad stated that as long as his climate isn't arid, he is okay, so he was given mid/southern Chinese climate due to his latitude, ocean currents and atmospheric pressure. @Variotahas remained Mediterranean as per requests previously. @Limonaiaalso has remained Mediterranean, but cooler due to their higher latitude and lack of large ocean currents. @Esonice personally oversaw their climate region's development as requested - and anyone is welcome to do the same if they wish for modifications! - giving it a transitioning humid to arid climate going east to west. @Sunset Sea Islandsand @Andalla have largely remained the same.

Due to Alharu having numerous members, it was rather tricky to balance everything out and was the continent I was stuck on for the largest time, but in general I'm personally quite happy with how it turned out.

 

Aurelia, Eastern Thalassa & Antargis
   

First off: The Rihranian Desert remains.
That's all, that's all that matters. Moving onto Marenesia.

Kidding, of course.  It appears SSI's attempts to save Thalassa by pushing it somewhere else as only led to desertification. @Fjallshimaasked for his nation to be erased and thus it shall be to the deserts of time. @AsgeirriaI have no idea and the island may need changing if he replies, but considering he's been gone since November 2018, I wouldn't hold my breath. @Anatea's climate remains Mediterranean, although due to its extreme latitude has been made colder. With @Kirvinabeing similarly erased as Fjallshima, the climate as freely changed to match its environment. The effects of the Paranne Mountains in @Shffahkia were reduced to allow @Acadia continental climates due to his desire to change his nation's culture. Continental allows for the largest range of choices and can be changed at a future date. Shffahkia's climate was also changed quite radically, but he appears okay with the changes. @Oyus's climate is very similar/the same as the old version, so not much to say there.

Antargis is almost entirely polar climate, as it should be, besides as small region of potential habitability due to ocean currents in the region. Overall Aurelia might be the most controversial one due to the most changes regarding nations.

 

Marenesia & Europa
   

Marenesia hasn't changed that much to be honest. The changes to @Gallambria and @Batengdei were minimal. Gallambria appeared to enjoy/not mind his new arid west coast, and Batengdei has remained a monoclimate nation. Salvia specifically requested (see above) for a complete Mediterranean climate - which this new version has. The difference in Mediterranean types was largely decided by ocean currents and changing high pressure regions in the summer and winter. Marenesia Minor has changed little between versions.

Europa suffered from Argis-Syndrome in the previous map drafts, with much of @Tagmatium Rules and @Haruspex under ice. This was changed to have only the northern most regions of Europa experience siberian climates. The Europan desert was split in two to allow for @Cristina Hot Mediterranean climate. @Orioni's iiwiki climate was added to his island, using Cuba and Madagascar as references. Overall it was just an expansion of habitable existing climate groups.

 

Overall & Conclusion

Climate map Version 3.4.2

Overall, I think this map was a success, and those in the Discord server saw its creation over a period of a couple days and seemed to be in agreement. The questionnaire will be attached at the bottom of this post, do please answer as it'll be vital for the final complex climate map.

Id like to thank @Sunset Sea Islands, @Heiheguo, and @Orioni for helping in the climate group chat and providing resources when I couldn't find any. But also thank everyone on the Forum for being patient and not too harsh with their criticism on previous versions 😃. Any questions/comments/criticism, do please share as a reply or in the discord server or discord DMs and ill try to address them when I can.

 

https://forms.gle/cRqqkha35CTXjWff8 (Questionnaire)

Edited September 25, 2020 by Metztlitlaca
Version for map incorrect. (see edit history)