Occident History Thread

[Gaellicia]

There's been a lot of convo the past few days on Discord regarding early Occident history, especially about Lysia. I thought it'd be useful to have an OOC forum thread to keep track of details.

Summary made by @Tagmatium Rules based on discussion with @Florentia and me.

 

• Pre-Aroman Lysian population (Lukka according to wiki - the name is from a people in SW Asia Minor) - Dacio-Thracian peoples, who also live in Suverina.
• Aroman conquest sometime before AD1? • Gelt slaves brought to Lysia after the Aroman conquest. Same time as the Gaellician ones? Trade continues for hundreds of years, leading to large populations.
• Collapse of Aroman authority in the west and east in the mid-200s. It was briefly stabilised during the Octarchy (late 200s, early 300s).
• Amutian, Argic and Buranic raids (300s-400s). Argic raids include both proto-Anglians and Gelts. Some also settle and/or recruited as soldiers.
• Slave revolt in area that is to become Lysia, led by [potentially mythical Lysian founder figure]. Becomes foundation of later Lysian polities.
• Aroman Empire struggles to hold on to its western provinces through invasions, revolts, and defections.
• Authority collapses in the west again and for the final time after the Battle of Dubaserium in 484.
• Anglians form their own kingdom(s?) in late 400s to early 500s. They begin to conquer the area that is to become modern Anglia.
• Lysians establish their own kingdom(s?) in the late 400s to early 500s. They begin to conquer the area that is to become modern Lysia.

[Tagmatium Rules]

It's worth linking this here.

The Aroman Empire.

[Gaellicia]

One thing that raises questions is a bit in my history about Lysian settlement of one of my islands. Haven't figured out how the Lysians or pre-Lysians would have got there or why. I just know the capital of the island in question is Beaumaris, and in my head, I imagine it as founded as part of conquering the island.

Some potential ideas I discussed with @Tagmatium Rules:

1. Buranian raiders swung around the top of the Occident and established a settlement in Lysia. The culture that arose eventually sent raiders back towards Burania and made a colony on my island. This theory makes some amount of sense and is kind of cool with the Buranian viking type raiders. But, it also may be too close to the IRL Normans. We discussed wanting to be more unique and break from IRL history.
2. Lysian adventurers or mercenaries went to sea looking for lands. Some of them ended up on my island. Eventually, Buranian raiders came and took over their colony but kept the noble traditions and language. This one is still Norman-inspired, but it's different from IRL history. The question is, what motivated those Lysian adventurers to go around the Occident?
3. A pre-Gaellician decided he wanted to conquer the island. As part of his effort, he hired a lot of Lysian mercenaries. They could have kicked some Buranians off the island, too, or gotten kicked off by Buranians later.

[Tagmatium Rules]

Weirdly, the IRL Beaumaris in Wales was originally a Viking settlement before it was conquered by Edward I and given the Norman French name of "Beaumaris".

For 2, it could be that the Lysians were just out for loot or exploring new territory. Maybe they'd heard of the riches of Vanarambaium and wanted a slice of it themselves?

For 3, how "pre" is the pre-Gaellician?

 

[Gaellicia]

19 minutes ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

Weirdly, the IRL Beaumaris in Wales was originally a Viking settlement before it was conquered by Edward I and given the Norman French name of "Beaumaris".

Did not know this! 😮 Very interesting and actually potentially contributes to our lore.

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For 2, it could be that the Lysians were just out for loot or exploring new territory. Maybe they'd heard of the riches of Vanarambaium and wanted a slice of it themselves?

Could be! It'd be funny if they got to the island and found the riches had gone with the Aromans, all that's left being slate.

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For 3, how "pre" is the pre-Gaellician?

After Aroman Imperial rule but before the forging of a unified Galikian identity. Somewhere in the period before or at the start of Thelars being on the island. Maybe a time when the island was splintered amongst different nobles.

[Orioni]

2 hours ago, Gaellicia said:

Buranian raiders swung around the top of the Occident and established a settlement in Lysia. The culture that arose eventually sent raiders back towards Burania and made a colony on my island. This theory makes some amount of sense and is kind of cool with the Buranian viking type raiders. But, it also may be too close to the IRL Normans. We discussed wanting to be more unique and break from IRL history.

Buranian horse raiders making it all the wait into the Occident seems like a stretch. The isthmus would always have been too good of a choke point. It's why I invented the Thelarike sea raiders as a secondary force for chaos. Mind, both would likely originate from the Burania and environs.

[Gaellicia]

2 minutes ago, Orioni said:

Buranian horse raiders making it all the wait into the Occident seems like a stretch. The isthmus would always have been too good of a choke point. It's why I invented the Thelarike sea raiders as a secondary force for chaos. Mind, both would likely originate from the Burania and environs.

I think the Thelar raiders is what we meant when discussing the Buranian sea raider/viking idea. 

[Tagmatium Rules]

10 hours ago, Orioni said:

Buranian horse raiders making it all the wait into the Occident seems like a stretch. The isthmus would always have been too good of a choke point. It's why I invented the Thelarike sea raiders as a secondary force for chaos. Mind, both would likely originate from the Burania and environs.

We already have Buranian invasions of the Occident, so unless they have water wings for their horses, I assume that they have ships, too

[Orioni]

Looks like we agree. While I'm an outsider to Occidental affairs, I did create part of the Buran history and those Thelarike sailors. So I felt like adding my two cents to this discussion.

Furthermore, you could establish a history where @Great Anglia and perhaps even Lysia have Buran influences. Similar to how the Normans crossed into England, but across a much longer distance. To make this plausible, they'd only need to establish some supply stops along the way. For example, when sailing westward from Burania:

• Akwisia could be the first stop on their route. Its wiki page already describes how: “The chaos of the 3rd Century meant that Buranian tribes were able to wrestle the control of the island away from the Aroman Empire as the garrison of the island was withdrawn to the south. This allowed a fierce tribe, known for wielding axes, to take over and secede from the empire.”
• Two or three coastal villages in Haruspex. Living off the sea, they wouldn't need to move inland to farm.
• Phalkia, Adaptus' island in the Ram Sea. It's not too farm from the Occidental mainland. Once in the Ram Sea, they may also notice merchant ships sailing back and forth to present-day Port Regio, making easy pickings. Perhaps there's a Buran heritage on this island, something like RL Dublin. 
• That tiny island northwest of Great Anglia.

Building on this, these experiences in the north Adlantic Ocean could also teach these people how to sail in rougher seas. Establishing this fact is useful to build upon the later explorations by Thelarike outcasts such as Olrik Naddoddson (ca. 887 CE).

[Tagmatium Rules]

4 hours ago, Orioni said:

Looks like we agree. While I'm an outsider to Occidental affairs, I did create part of the Buran history and those Thelarike sailors. So I felt like adding my two cents to this discussion.

Furthermore, you could establish a history where @Great Anglia and perhaps even Lysia have Buran influences. Similar to how the Normans crossed into England, but across a much longer distance. To make this plausible, they'd only need to establish some supply stops along the way. For example, when sailing westward from Burania:

• Akwisia could be the first stop on their route. Its wiki page already describes how: “The chaos of the 3rd Century meant that Buranian tribes were able to wrestle the control of the island away from the Aroman Empire as the garrison of the island was withdrawn to the south. This allowed a fierce tribe, known for wielding axes, to take over and secede from the empire.”
• Two or three coastal villages in Haruspex. Living off the sea, they wouldn't need to move inland to farm.
• Phalkia, Adaptus' island in the Ram Sea. It's not too farm from the Occidental mainland. Once in the Ram Sea, they may also notice merchant ships sailing back and forth to present-day Port Regio, making easy pickings. Perhaps there's a Buran heritage on this island, something like RL Dublin. 
• That tiny island northwest of Great Anglia.

Building on this, these experiences in the north Adlantic Ocean could also teach these people how to sail in rougher seas. Establishing this fact is useful to build upon the later explorations by Thelarike outcasts such as Olrik Naddoddson (ca. 887 CE).

I'd forgotten about that bit in the history of Akwisia.

Good memory, there.