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Aurelian League: OOC


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This post concerns @Kirvina, @Rhodellia, @Zaxar, @Xio, @Mito, and should they wish @Anatea and @Volta. The topic in question is the creation of an in-lore unified Aurelian League, and its nature.

Since 2018 when I joined, it's been a goal of mine to provision for the creation of an Aurelian EU. But the membership and activity of the continent has always fluctuated. Certain departures and transitions made it difficult to move forward with an Aurelian League concept, because the status of founding members and important nations would be in flux. But, Aurelia is now stable enough that no changes can be expected in the imminent future, and enough of the continent is filled that any newcomers could be incorporated into a majority-consensus organization without rocking the boat. With this in mind, I think that it is finally time to discuss and proceed with this idea that has been on the table for so long. I have separated Anatea and Volta in the ping list because I don't know if you two want to participate, but you can indicate that by responding.

Here are some questions which the theoretical League-members should answer.

1) Do we have a lingua franca? If so, what is it? I would like to propose that we use Laimiaic / Tagmatine Greek (IRL Modern Greek) as our lingua franca, mostly because while not the native language of any of our countries' populations, it would have been the prestige language of old Aroman imperial organizations on Aurelia, the trade language as propagated by the historical Kirvinian upper class, and a language of learning throughout the early periods of the continent and beyond. It is comparatively easier to learn than our cursed hodgepodge conlangs, and makes sense to me.

2) Do we have a shared currency? If so, what is it? There were three ideas floated in previous conversations. The first is that there is a shared Aurelian currency, the Aurel maybe, but this could cause issues since the economies of Aurelia are very diverse and different from each other. The second is that the Aurel exists, but not as a universal Euro currency, but a currency of translation to which all the Aurelian currencies are pegged. So countries retain control over their native currencies, but the Aurel can be exchanged for any of these. The third is that there is no shared currency.

3) What are our economic treaties? It would be easiest to set about this in Voice, probably, but there is a very long list of economic arrangements that could be made between the Aurelian countries. Analyzing for example the Mitonese and Rhodellian high-tech industries, and the Kirvinian infrastructure production and free landholders, the Xionese guilds and various industries, Zaxari lithium mining and heavy metals, there is a lot of room for agreements to be written out that are economically mutually beneficial. Open for suggestions.

4) What are our travel treaties? I'd love to see an Aurelian Schengen Zone, but with a dystopian twist of treaties ensuring countries' responsibility to protect foreign travelers and provide troops to the major over-land and over-sea routes in the interest of dispelling banditry and piracy.

5) What are our military treaties? Is there a shared Aurelian Army Command? Is military intelligence shared between the Aurelian nations, are there drills and how frequent are they? I'd like to see a more centralized Aurelian Military Command that does a lot of drills in the wasteland and in the oceans, just because I think that would give the most roleplay.

6) How centralized is the League? Does it have a shared parliament? Does it have research treaties and programs? Is its foreign policy coordinated? When was it founded? This is where answers to these more miscellaneous questions, and any further ideas or concepts you may have, e.g. mottos, ceremonies, drills, and historical details, should go.

Take your time and respond to each of the ideas I've slapped down. Once I have an idea of exactly who is participating and what exactly they want, I will compromise between all ideas on the desk and make a writeup with flowcharts of bureaus, parliaments and organizations, and a list of all canon concepts, and we will iterate it until we all accept it and it becomes an IC roleplay thread marking its re-signing so we can all have some posting about ratifying it once again.

Cheers, guys. Feels good. Feels damn good.

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Volta's membership will depend a LOT on numerous different factors, and while it is a communist state (officially) there are a number of things to point out about the ideas given.

But assuming all the proposals that have been discussed right now get put into place, its unlikely Volta would be a founding member. That said, some form of observer status may be possible in the now.

Why do I say this?

1 - Lingua franca - put simply, Volta would be very weary even nowadays of giving a language not native to the country official status. And in the past, they would have been super not cool with it. The reasons are historical and nationalistic in nature. The Voltan language, the common language spoken by the majority of Voltan people, was actually banned in public use by the pre-communist government, who declared it to be "wrong Dolch" and not a language in its own right. By the time they did this it would have been impossible to actually stop people from using it, but it did mean other very negative things for the common folk. For example, a student at school could be punished (either by humiliation by things like the French symbole, Welsh not, or Japanese dialect cards, or corporal punishment in some cases), or if you are charged with a crime you would be denied an interpreter (because authorities would be like "Voltan is not a language but just Dolch spoken wrong, so just speak Dolch properly and you'll have no issues!").

Needless to say due to this history, right after the communists took over they would have implemented policies in the opposite extreme, trying to stamp out the use of Dolch as the "language of the bourgeoisie". The only reason this would be effective would be the comparative few number of people who used Dolch as their native language on a day-to day basis. Native languages (such as Tlaloc) would not have been suppressed as harshly, but until recently treated as second-class. It's only after Chancellor Ernst Krenz came to power that he began allowing schools to offer Tlaloc language classes as elective options.

So yeah... while irl I get the logic, ic'ly it would be very tough to convince Volta to agree to this.

2 - Currency - Another thing that would be very tough to get Volta to agree to, but for more mundane reasons. Volta would just like to have full control over its currency, simple as that.

3 - Free trade zone - This is where the difference between the current Chancellor and previous Chancellors come into play. Past Chancellors would have approached free trade agreements with other nations with suspicion, with the exception of things like the ICEB. Current Chancellor would be willing to engage with a free trade agreement, though he would not be willing to join a customs union (assuming that's what @Zaxaris suggesting). That having been said, Chancellor Ernst Krenz would be more than happy to sign some form of free trade agreememnt lowering or even eliminating tariffs between Volta and the league, especially if it means potentially more of Volta's goods being exported.

4 - Travel and visas - This would also be a sticking point for past governments, and to a lesser extent the current one but not as much now than in the past. Basically, Volta has long had a system of exit visas that Voltan citizens (noncitizens would be exempt) would need before they are allowed to leave the country. This would have been put in place in the past to prevent brain drain and to stop disloyal elements from leaving the country, all as part of Willi Ebert's policies of authoritarianism. I imagine Volta in modern times will eventually reform this system, changing it from being difficult to get an exit visa to merely being a formality (maybe with it being automatically being given as part of exit immigration checks). Unless you behave like Logan Paul did in Japan, in which case Voltan authorities will ban you from traveling abroad, but that's a different story.

But aside from that, modern Volta would be more open to allowing tourism in the modern times and making it easier for people to settle (though they would be hesitant to completely drop the visa requirement). These are things that the government prior to Ernst Krenz would be completely unwilling to do, so this is probably another place where Volta could move closer to it in modern times but probably would not have joined initially.

5 - Defense - This is something that likely would depend on a number of factors. First, would the Aurelian League (or any of its member states) recognize the communist government of Volta, or would they support the government-in-exile? I ask this because Volta would be completely unwilling to assist a country in defense if that country supports an organization that wants the current government destroyed, except for under extreme circumstances that necessitates joint defense (for example, Anglia). Second, what is the extent of the cooperation? If it's merely external defense, maybe Volta will consider it. Kind of like what Zaxar has said.

6 - Centralization - Depending on how centralized the league is in modern times will affect how close of a relationship Volta would want. Volta would not be willing to give up its own decision making and regulatory authorities.

So yeah. For all of those reasons, I don't see Volta being a founding member or being a full member today. But some sort of observer status is something Volta may be willing to accept, depending on the details of said agreement.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A big part of what will colour Xio’s interactions with other Aurelian League members is its involvement in another Economic-Defence bloc (LAANN).

I spoke with Fulgistan early this month and we came to the agreement that if Xio was to be a part of the AL they couldn’t join LAANN’s sanction-free economic sphere. Not out of any possessiveness on Fulgistan’s part but just out of international geopolitical logic. The existence of Xio as an economic bridge between the Aurelian League and LAANN would give it incredible economic (and subsequently political) leverage on the independence and security of both organisations which realistically neither side would ever allow. Especially with Xio’s human rights track record being below average.

Xio would most likely choose AL over LAANN when it comes to economic pacts but will still trade extensively with Fulgistan as Xio is their ‘geopolitical watchtower’ over Aurelia and engage with the military and cultural aspects of LAANN on a regular basis.

 

Lingua Franca
Xio, as I will wurldbuild / add to my IIwiki, has 4 international languages that most of the urban populations can at least partly understand: Japanese (Mito), Chinese (Fulgistan), English (Seylos/Kaseka), Greek (Kirvina).

If its not one of these four it’s very unlikely for Xio to ever seriously adopt it purely because most Xionese are already cramming their brains with:
- Their local language
- Xi Dialect, the standardised language of communication and writing across the empire and D’kalla-Wananga region
- Hong (archaic dialect of the Huang language)
- Either Mitonese, Anglish, or Kirvinan Occidental

 

Shared Currency
Xio would be equal parts for and against a shared currency. The idea would certainly be seen as a positive by much of Xio’s government, as a poorer less stable state than Kirvina or Mito it could use a more stable currency to its benefits of GDP growth and development. But a shared currency would mean that it’s, well, shared. If another less stable nation goes to war or collapses into civil war the shared currency would collapse in value. In the end Xio would be for a shared currency but for a more nebulous “peaceful future time”.

 

Economic Treaties
I think something similar to the EU would be great, protecting the interests of Aurelia’s intracontinental markets and exports/imports and national economies whilst allowing for a high degree of trade. Of course it may have to be a smaller scope if there is no shared currency or no ‘Schengen Area’. An Aurelian Central Bank would be a cool idea and the AL could be a force in uplifting Zaxar and Xio to higher economy status.

 

Travel Treaties
Similar to Zaxar, Xio may be weary of loose travel restrictions as brain drain would be a serious issue for the nation although dampened due to distances from Mito and Kirvina. Though hey that might be fun for RP to add some realistic strain to the organisation.

 

Military Treaties
Xio would be apprehensive to go any further than military training/games as they’re weary of Rhodellia and the Free State and God-knows-what in the western Aurelian Wastes. I would agree with Zaxar that if there is a full-blown military alliance that internal squabbles be left to voluntary forces from the individual nations. Xio would also make it very clear from the start if LAANN and AL ever end up on the opposites sides of a major conflict that they will remain staunchly neutral. Other than that Xio would gladly aid fellow AL members in smaller scale conflicts (by Eurth’s standards) and I (out of character) think it would be fun RP-wise for a greater military alliance. The idea of a Monroe Doctrine clause would also be very interesting as it'll effectively put Aurelia under lockdown by Aurelians.

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Similarly to Xio, Mitō’s interactions with the Aurelian League will be heavily influenced by its historic ties i.e. its Thalassan territories and its relations to Kōri-Chi. Overall I’d say it would be very similar to pre-Brexit UK in that Mitō will try to negotiate an out and a special position in most affairs. Despite this, the pure economic pull of mainland Aurelia will most likely mean that Mitō will be leaning more towards the AL.

1) Laimiac would most likely make the most sense as a lingua franca especially if it has a long history of being used as one in the Gulf of Auriel. However, an equally possible situation could be that there is no lingua franca and that regional lingua francas still rule, showing historic trading ties in the modern day. To alter the well-known quote: ‘The language of Aurelia is translation.’

2) I would be strongly in favour of creating an Aurelian currency (the Auro?) but since Mito’s own currency carries quite a bit of influence, it would choose to remain outside the ‘Aurozone’ and keep its own. However, Mitō making an agreement to one day adopt the currency and possibly pinning its former currency to it could be an interesting thing to RP

3) Economically Mitō would be the most in favour of the AL. A large market where to export its products as well as securing resources from mainland Aurelia would prove to be far too tempting a prospect to pass up. This is to say that Mitō would be highly in favour of a single market. 

4) Mitō would most likely advocate for an Aurelian Schengen Zone but with some caveats that I’ll get into later. 

5) Militarily the country would want to ensure peace in Aurelia (the exercise in futility it being), so most likely the approach of a Monroe Doctrine that secures Aurelia from outside threats while avoiding deep military commitments that would mean sending Mitonese soldiers to the railroads would be chosen.

6) The organisation of the Aurelian League will be a tricky thing. The key question is whether or not unanimity is a core principle. Since the member states are so different and thereby have different goals and motivations, it will prove difficult to achieve things unanimously but on the other hand, choosing to go with some kind of majority based voting system (2/3, 3/5, etc) can lead to the unpalatable prospect of a nation being out voted and having to abide by a decision they disagree with which could lead to resentment. 

Largely because the prospective members of the AL are so different, I think it’d be most interesting to have different levels of participation. So at the bottom you’d have Aurelian states that aren’t affiliated with the league but are by default covered by the Monroe Doctrine and possess the ability to join in the future. Next from that you’d have some kind of ‘Aurelia Partnership’ for countries that want deeper ties with the league as well as for prospective members. Then you’d have a cut off point where actual members have representatives in the ‘Senate’ and participate in decision making. Finally, you’d have Aurelia+ or deeply integrated members who could have their own Schengen Zone. So Mitō, Kirvina, Rhodellia and Anatea could be a part of this deeply integrated group and have free travel while Xio and Zaxar who would stand to lose from such an arrangement could not but still be considered equal members. Additionally the Thalassan territories of Mitō would not be in the league instead I'd imagine it'd be a situation similar to the Faroe Islands and the EU.

A lot of the things I laid out here are contingent on there being a big Aurelian League at least in the modern day or the near future but I would also understand the desire for a small League as well.

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1) Having Laimiaic established as the lingua franca for communicating with other Aurelian peoples works for me. 

I already envisioned the Rhodellian education system aggressively drilling multiple languages into the general populace. The first is Rhodellian Standard Dolchic, for communicating with fellow countrymen who may ordinarily speak a different language or dialect. The second is Anglish, for communicating with people from outside of Aurelia. If Luxembourg can teach its populace four languages - Luxembourgish, French, German, and English - all at the same time, adding Laimiaic as one of Rhodellia’s main languages should be feasible. 

Having Laimiaic as a main language makes natural, historical sense too. Occidental-speaking Aroman colonies historically would have been the most important political entities in the southern half of Aurelia, where most Aurelia players are located. Many Native Aurelian merchants, nobles, and diplomats would have picked up Laimiaic long before any other colonisers would have showed up. Laimiaic would have been highly beneficial to any coloniser’s attempts at international trade, diplomacy, and colonisation in Southern Aurelia. 

In Rhodellia’s specific case, any Dolchic colonisation attempt within the Gulf of Auriel would have hinged on the support of nearby Aroman colonies like Exarchate of Lernaea, those of the Nathillei culture group, and unified Kirvina later on. Rhodellia and the first tribes it would have encountered are also solidly within Nathillei territory, as marked on this proposed map of 'Aroman colonisation by culture group' in Aurelia by Kirvina. So there’s good reason for Liaimiaic to have taken hold in Rhodellia, at least among its merchant class, classical academics, and political elite.

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2) I honestly don’t know much about the economics of currency. But as the country with the most advanced economy in Aurelia, I’d guess it’d be more advantageous than detrimental for Rhodellia to adopt the Aurel(?) if it already exists as a widely used Euro-like currency. Otherwise, Rhodellia will just keep the Rhodellian Thaler (RT$).

3) Free trade and a single market would be cool.

4) Rhodellia probably wouldn’t join a Schengen-like Agreement due to a strong need to protect its territorial borders and monitor people and items going in and out of the country. It’s fighting low-intensity conflicts against practically all of its direct geographic land neighbours as well as struggling with a Native Aurelian insurgency. And much of its land borders are fenced off Chernobyl-style ‘Red Zones’ (see: France’s Zone Rouge) from all the unexploded ordnance and ecological damage from previous conflicts. Fully open borders just aren't feasible for Rhodellia.

When it comes to agreements about trade and movement, there'd have to be some special provisions to accomodate Rhodellia's wackiness. There needs to be provisions that prevent everyone’s ordinary citizens and terrorist groups from freely bringing military-grade weapons like machine guns, anti-tank guided missiles, fully-armed main battle tanks, and attack helicopters out of Rhodellia on a whim. And while Rhodellia would gladly welcome as many refugees and immigrants as physically possible, there needs to be measures in place minimising brain drain in less wealthy countries as people may find Rhodellia's somewhat functioning socialism more attractive than conditions at home.

5) Rhodellia would be fine with either a full military alliance or mutual defence treaty. A shared Aurelian Army Command, shared military intelligence, and annual AL military exercises would be nice. Our militaries will need to start cooperating if we’re gonna be competitive on the Wurld stage. Rhodellia would also probably have the most advanced and experienced military in the AL, and would be happy to share its expertise and training facilities with its allies.

Rhodellia would also like extradition treaties that allow it to hunt down Native Aurelian insurgents, outlaws, and particularly dangerous political dissidents that may be sheltering in other countries. 

6) I think a decentralised League but with a Parliament (with seats roughly proportional to population) for making group decisions would work best. 

Edited by Rhodellia (see edit history)
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  • 1 month later...

Seems like we're all in favour of Laimiaic as the Lingua Franca of the Aurelian League / Aurelia as a whole. It makes sense politically, economically, and historically (at least for us on the mainland near the Auriel). A shared currency / free trade / single market also seems to be getting the thumbs up from everyone. Since my own initial post my idea of Xio has changed slightly but enough to where it would make more sense for Xio to want to adopt the currency now rather than later.

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Dark Red - members we know who want to join the Aurelian League
Light Red - members we don't know in the present (so, just Anatea)
Pink - members who'd only want a spectator status (along with the NPCs)
I'd assume Safiloa/Free State/the numerous Ruthenian nations/Cote de Fourrure/Wampano would also be observer nations (which may lead to some interesting AL council meetings if one nation is invading the other). May be beneficial for the members to create a couple NPCs along the interiors or coastlines to connect up the members of the Union.


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Dark Green - Free Trade Agreement and a unified customs union.
Light Green - Free Trade Agreement only.
Not too surprising, I was unsure if @Kirvina was for or against a customs union.

Regarding the application of the Auro/Aurel, it appears as those many of us like the idea but for realism sake very few of our nations would be willing to adopt it. Makes sense considering the unstable and unequal economies of Aurelia. Perhaps something that is brought about in the future, once Xio and Zaxar build up economically? Another option is a shared transactional currency, pegged to either Mito's or Kirvina's currency (I omit Rhodellia due to their tumultuous political situation) in which we all agree to do our exchanges (imports & exports) in the Auro/Aurel with in-universe future plans to have it become our national currencies by 202X once Y nations reach Z economic goals. It means instead of needing a complex web of "how much is 1 Thaler in Ryau, and how many Tepos is a Drachma" it's all converted through the Auro/Aurel. Also having it pegged to one particularly stable nation means the Auro/Aurel is a stable currency even if those who transaction in it are not particularly stable themselves. However this would mean Mito or Kirvina would become Aurelia's (and any other countries who trade primarily with Aurelia) reserved currency holder and the de-facto "empire of Aurelia".

A question for all Aurelians (@Kirvina / @Zaxar / @Anatea / @Volta / @Mito / @Rhodellia) is when the Aurelian League began. Do we have any particular dates in mind? If we can figure out how old the AL is it might help figure out how centralised we want the union.
 

Edited by Xio (see edit history)
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  • 1 month later...

So, now that I am officially in Aurelia I've been scouring these posts and I am honestly in favour of everything here, the AL is a pretty cool concept and I'd be just fine joining it.

Lingua Franca - Liamiaic works well.

Currency - Considering the economic differences it'd be extremely difficult for it to work, I think transactional as Xio said above me would work as the standard.

Economic Treaties - Honestly I'm fine with whatever works.

Travel - Advocatius would likely be in favour of a Schengen-like agreement because we can further education for subjects that would relate to travel among other countries for much lower cost

Military - Advocatius' stance on military treaties would be in favour because of the nations military traditions allowing forces to seek combat and more comprehensive training with foreign nations

Overall, AL I would join

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