Expansion: Ateenia

[Ateenia]

Greetings my fellow Sungardians, well Eurthians. I come here to request an expansion into the 6 islands you see on the picture for the securer future of the few locals.

The black dot is the capital of the jarldom, Hvalavík.

 

Jarldom of Nanubard

This will be a historic expansion which will take place from 1697-1731, meaning that the first island was settled in 1697 and the last one in 1731 and they were originally whaling settlements to hunt whales, fox and seals and occasionally fight the local Nanuvats that nomadically travel to those islands during summer to fish and club some seals. from late 17th century to 19th century, many settlements formed and diminished as the prey population rose and fell.

Around 1887, first coal deposits were discovered which led to the formation of permanent towns which still exist today and led to these simple islands from becoming a Jarldom of Nanubard from the simple territorial administration that ruled over there earlier and a powerful and loyal Nanuvat family was brought to power to rule in the name of the Ateenian monarch as jarl. 

Today the known coal deposits are either depleted or too small for any real mining effort to be worth it.

I plan to keep most of the lore @Ivericahas built around those islands with the polar service RP and most certainly will keep the Polar Service operations in that 1 island around.

Population of the jarldom would be a total of 9,921 people with a gdp of $27,817 per capita, which would leave their total gdp of $275,972,457 that would be integrated to my stats upon finishing the expansion RP

 

 

[Tagmatium Rules]

I'm tagging @Magnus since the islands are closer to their coast than that of @Ateenia.

It'll be interesting to know what they think of it.

[Tagmatium Rules]

The GDP of the islands seems very high, especially since the resources there are mentioned as being depleted.

What do you have to justify that?

[Ateenia]

13 minutes ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

The GDP of the islands seems very high, especially since the resources there are mentioned as being depleted.

What do you have to justify that?

They work as scientists, whale hunters and as personel on ice breaker ships aswell as simple port workers, well those are the main jobs there.

Primary export resources of the island currently are fur, whale meat, seal meat and fish.

Most of the GDP is remains of the wealth coal mining brought do the jarldom.

Also its a tourist spot, however tourism doesnt make up that big of a portion of the gdp.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ateenia (see edit history)

[Ateenia]

17 minutes ago, Magnus said:

Honestly, I have to ask some questions out of curiosity and doubt because this is  considered as a fairly big affair that is happening.

I do admit, those islands look nice out there. I kinda wanted them, though @Ateenia expanded first and I cannot make a new enemy or some crazy war affair because of it. 
 

So first, can you write some more information on why you want the islands, and what are is Ateenia going to do with these? Since they are very close to Magnus, I would like to make sure it’s not a threat to us. Because technically you can design it as a secret intel island with all your agencies, and that may actually be a problem is we don’t know. Besides, we can plan a RP together if the circumstances allow. 
 

I just have a couple of questions regarding this because I’am considering some options and other stuff. Do note that this is not the meaning I disagree with your explain; it just means I need more information to make a informed decision. 

1st reason to expand there, its one of the few places i can expand to.

2nd reason, to have cool islands

3rd reason, with these, i can ensure shipping routes from Ateenia to rest of the wurld, will remain safe, no matter the diplomatic situation.

4th, man can use the lack of light pollution to stargaze in some research station or observatory or whatever.

As for you feeling threatened, Ateenia really doesnt have any reason to waste resources on focusing its military installations against Magnus when its on high tensions with Prymont and thus also sees TRIDENT as potential threat.

The focus may or may not change in future, depending on future events.

 

[Tagmatium Rules]

Those islands are almost the only direction that is open to the both of you, bar just pushing south. Space is at a hell of a premium in that part of Argis.

Options may be to either come up with a joint history of the islands together or perhaps have them as a condominium. The former is logical, as they're very close to @Magnus but the latter is likely going to be dissatisfactory due to what @Ateenia has stated their intentions are.

Joint history would allow you to come up with shared lore, if you haven't already.

[Ateenia]

12 minutes ago, Magnus said:

@Ateenia fair enough. I don’t see anything wrong with your response, I was expecting 2-3 paragraphs on explanation but a simple list would work fine for now. 
I see lack of detail and planning in your expansion; the reason “the islands are cool” is not really a reason because by making a proposal to expand, your opening up new problems and potentially creating headaches for other nations and moderators. I’am not a mod myself, so enough with the personal opinion stuff.

For your last reason, I’am concerned. Originally, I thought this was only between you and me and the moderators who need to confirm this. But now, I could see your tensions with @Prymont and seeing TRIDENT as a threat. 
 

I need more explanation. Now more important then ever, I don’t feel pressured to take sides. That means I’am not approving or disapproving this until this is sorted out. I don’t wanna be dragged in to a conflict; put Magnus in trouble. 
 

@Tagmatium Rules I’am considering a lot of things. Please hold on because I need to see how this works out. Please be patient. 

Prymont tensions isnt the reason im expanding there, i mentioned it to assure you that any military installations that those islands might have, will be too busy looking for any potential TRIDENT warships heading towards Canamo, to waste resources observing Magnus.

And i dont see how Ateenia getting islands would drag Magnus into a conflict between Ateenia and Prymont.

[Ateenia]

You consenting to expansion OOC most certainly isnt grounds to denounce someone IC.

IC decisions cannot be based off of OOC conversations.

 

[Glimmer]

On 12/12/2021 at 1:25 PM, Ateenia said:

Population of the jarldom would be a total of 9,921 people with a gdp of $27,817 per capita, which would leave their total gdp of $275,972,457 that would be integrated to my stats upon finishing the expansion RP

Stats look good. Basically a rip of Svalbard and not in a bad way either. I'd say the biggest questions are one whether Magnus formally objects to this expansion OOC and Iverca's thoughts since he has lore with regard to Polar Service.

8 hours ago, Magnus said:

I do admit, those islands look nice out there. I kinda wanted them, though

While I don't mean to derail this by making this suggestion, I am honor bound to inform you that it is your right to object to his expansion and it would be certainly taken into consideration by staff. Though it would be encouraged that there is some compromise if we don't all see eye to eye.

7 hours ago, Magnus said:

TRIDENT and/or Prymont may feel threatened that I’am giving you islands

That's their problem. We are all adults and if they have something to say about it they are more than welcome to do so on this thread. Speak only for yourself in this regard.

[Seylos]

So just for my own understanding, this expansion will be to incorporate a (currently) independent Jarldom into @Ateenia correct?

On 12/12/2021 at 1:25 PM, Ateenia said:

Around 1887, first coal deposits were discovered which led to the formation of permanent towns which still exist today and led to these simple islands from becoming a Jarldom of Nanubard from the simple territorial administration that ruled over there earlier and a powerful and loyal Nanuvat family was brought to power to rule in the name of the Ateenian monarch as jarl. 

This seems to suggest that this group of islands is currently under the control of the Ateenian government? Or is this more of a "technically you are under us" but the reality is that Nanubard is independent in all things (as of right now). I think we need to establish what their status is to understand the nature of this expansion and what it means geopolitically for the local area.

I think it's extraordinarily important that both Ateenia and @Magnus agree on what these islands mean to both of them. The proximity of these islands to Magnus (them being literally geographically closer to the islands than Ateenia) must mean they've at least had dealings with the peoples on these islands in the past.

I'm leaning towards this being ok, but I want to see both parties agree on what the islands are and at least a little history behind it.

[Ateenia]

11 minutes ago, Seylos said:

So just for my own understanding, this expansion will be to incorporate a (currently) independent Jarldom into @Ateenia correct?

This seems to suggest that this group of islands is currently under the control of the Ateenian government? Or is this more of a "technically you are under us" but the reality is that Nanubard is independent in all things (as of right now). I think we need to establish what their status is to understand the nature of this expansion and what it means geopolitically for the local area.

I think it's extraordinarily important that both Ateenia and @Magnus agree on what these islands mean to both of them. The proximity of these islands to Magnus (them being literally geographically closer to the islands than Ateenia) must mean they've at least had dealings with the peoples on these islands in the past.

I'm leaning towards this being ok, but I want to see both parties agree on what the islands are and at least a little history behind it.

Nah it would be part of Ateenia since the first settlers, it'll just be my 24th jarldom and be just like the other 23 jarldoms in government and legal stand point.

 

[Glimmer]

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

I declare, in my highest faith to oppose this expansion. While this has been a hard decision that I had to make, I believe it is one that is much needs and generally aligns with Eurth Roleplay itself. Please note these are my personal opinions; not necessarily yours.

This seems like a rush to judgment. I would caution you from doing such and consider keeping a more open mind by further engaging in dialogue. If in the end of it all the conclusion is the same, then it is understandable. I urge you to gather more information and trust the process before quickly shutting this door.

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

First, I feel this Expansion was poorly planned. I mean the first post of the thread contained little information, more is better. For example, reasons that @Ateenia provided regarding the expansion include “the islands are cool” and “it’s one of the only places I can expand to”. They are borderline, if not completely lacking.

If they are lacking, ask more questions. If this is a foundation of your objection, then your objection whilst legal is a rather poorly founded one. Eurth thrives by having friendly, open communication and keeping an open mind. Unless from the get go you didn't want this expansion to take place, this approach should be the one taken.

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

Expansions should not be created out of boredom;

We are here to have fun. To not be bored. I would advise you to refrain from making such statements.

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

the islands don’t event fit Ateenia that much. As all of us know, the islands are geographically closer to Magnus. The islands are far right of Ateenia, they would have to travel quite far to reach their territory. That is negative because the territories of a nation would have to stay fairly close to each other to make it a “actual nation”. 

On a flat map, sure. However, remember, this is a representation of a spherical planet and being that you both are at the pole there, "far right" isn't really far. While they are closer to you regardless, to say they aren't that close to Ateenia is kind of misleading and shows a misunderstanding of how cartography works. Not to mention, there are plenty of examples, especially of Nordic countries IRL, having far off ownership of islands and constitute it as a real nation. Statements like this lead me to believe to my initial observation: This seems like a rush to judgment founded poorly.

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

Finally, it would impact me. As @Seylos mentioned, Magnus had historical interactions with the people there. Although Magnus has no claims that the island is there’s, it has a large influence of the island. Many Magnums travel there for vacation. With Ateenia possibly owning the island, I would have to RP the impacts. For example, my citizens and the natives may be under new laws and regulations that are part of Ateenia. Since the natives are not of our control, they can possible dislike Ateenia and rebel. It’s just some of the impacts of this expansion. Honestly, the negative and extreme impacts are just too much. I would prefer it if we just leave the islands as it is, preserve it. 

This is something that could be worked in a compromise which I urge you both to consider as opposed to shutting this down outright. Obviously, both have ideas of how those islands interacted within your lore so regardless of expansion or not that is a discussion that has to take place as neighbors. Neither you nor Ateenia can take full ownership over its lore and a lack of collaboration and discussion will not get you far here. Additionally, there are others you would need to potentially consult on the matter of lore if I am not mistaken given previous RP actions ( @Iverica I believe ).

All that said, if nothing else, consider that RPing the negative effects is not necessarily a bad thing, either. This is a place for telling an interesting story, not to win and prevent harm every time.  It is upon Ateenia, if it were granted to him, to RP resistance and negative effects as well which is something I think we aren't accounting for. Statements like this lead me to believe to my initial observation: This seems like a rush to judgment founded poorly.

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

With a lighter closing note, I would like to state that this objection isn’t based on my feelings on Ateenia, I just feel that this and only this expansion for now does not fit our interests. It’s still up to the staff. I’am only including my own feelings on this. 

Aside from the above, are there any OOC reasons or plans you have with these islands? Are there any personal wishes you have for these islands? Consider, if you do, that you are likely not able not alone in determining that.

[Glimmer]

4 hours ago, Magnus said:

Thanks for the response. It does greatly matter.

I’am not completely shutting the door, I’ve just declared I’am not supporting it at least. Sorry for the rushed decision. 
 

As another thought of it, RPing the negative impacts may be interesting. I’am gonna wait a moment and see how this expansion plays out and if the moderators approve it.

10 hours ago, Oyus said:

are there any OOC reasons or plans you have with these islands? Are there any personal wishes you have for these islands?

Do ponder an answer to the above question. Additionally, do consider that just as you have the right to object to Ateenia's expansion, he, as a close active neighbor can do the same including with those islands. Collaboration is key.

 

[Ateenia]

41 minutes ago, Magnus said:

I do have some plans for RP the visit of my nation to the island. I do have no plans to expand there. 
 

In that case, we could own the islands together and find some shared history. I’ll be glad to improvise if @Ateenia is willing to do the same and try to find common ground on the management of the island (resource use, research etc.)

 

My plans with the islands require the islands to be part of Ateenia, not be international territory.

I can however let you set up a science station on one of the islands which your scientists could travel to and from and work in, VISA free.

[Glimmer]

4 hours ago, Magnus said:

I do have some plans for RP the visit of my nation to the island. I do have no plans to expand there. 
 

In that case, we could own the islands together and find some shared history. I’ll be glad to improvise if @Ateenia is willing to do the same and try to find common ground on the management of the island (resource use, research etc.)

 

3 hours ago, Ateenia said:

My plans with the islands require the islands to be part of Ateenia, not be international territory.

I can however let you set up a science station on one of the islands which your scientists could travel to and from and work in, VISA free.

This is all fine and well. I suggest you all discuss what you wish to do with the isles lore. Bear in mind that you will likely both have to compromise. I suggest setting up a separate OOC thread.

[Salvia]

While I do agree with many of @Oyus's points, I do believe @Magnus has full right to reject this expansion, even if he does not plan to expand there at this current time.

[Xio]

Okay, I think its about time I enter the ring after reading this entire clusterf**k of a debate. Though I'll make my conclusion clear now: With some extra wurldbuilding work on Ateenia's end, @Ateenia should be allowed this expansion despite Magnus' distaste for it.

This largely comes from @Magnus's appeared inability (or unwillingness) to separate OOC and IC discussion when it comes down to his reasons why. By allowing Ateenia to expand here (historically in 1600s to 1700s) you are not giving up anything politically in-universe. TRIDENT won't see you or Prymont anymore or any less of a threat and most certainly Ateenia CANNOT go against his reasons for the initial expansion without consulting staff, if his expansion is about incorporating these islands to secure historic shipping lanes but then his actual written expansion is about political tension with Prymont, his expansion would be voided as a breach of trust with the staff. Once Ateenia owns the islands officially he may start a new modern day RP thread about whatever on the actual islands, but it will be - as stated- modern day. As in, Magnus the nation can actively object and protest and gather allies and friends to push back against Ateenia.

Eurth is not a competition for whoever gets the biggest borders or who can politically subjugate their neighbours: Its a roleplaying game based around cooperation OOC to allow for cooperation and conflict In-Universe. There is no reason to be 'suspicious' of Ateenia because Ateenia LITERALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING without telling others, NO ONE CAN. We can all read each other's threads and if Ateenia doesn't want to become a social outcast of Eurth and its community he damn well knows not to be coy with his plans. Even myself with my own ""secret"" plans for my nation (or event nations I share with others) I share with people involved (such as Stedoria and Seylos regarding the Sentist State) or make obvious hints, and I would hope Ateenia would do the same.

Also regarding this: 

Quote

Finally, it would impact me. As @Seylos mentioned, Magnus had historical interactions with the people there. Although Magnus has no claims that the island is there’s, it has a large influence of the island. Many Magnums travel there for vacation. With Ateenia possibly owning the island, I would have to RP the impacts. For example, my citizens and the natives may be under new laws and regulations that are part of Ateenia. Since the natives are not of our control, they can possible dislike Ateenia and rebel. It’s just some of the impacts of this expansion. Honestly, the negative and extreme impacts are just too much. I would prefer it if we just leave the islands as it is, preserve it. 

Magnus if you could provide a link from the forum where this is written down and made canon I would very much appreciate it. If this isn't on the forum it will be discarded.


Now the actual expansion itself:
The stats look fine, basically just Svalbard, though I would like you to write a more in-depth piece on these islands such as their history and economy, and the rough details on how you plan to perform this expansion so we (the staff) can have a more accurate view of your idea of these islands to give a fair assessment once you've completed the expansion.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Metztlitlaca (see edit history)

[Salvia]

10 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

Okay, I think its about time I enter the ring after reading this entire clusterf**k of a debate. Though I'll make my conclusion clear now: With some extra wurldbuilding work on Ateenia's end, @Ateenia should be allowed this expansion despite Magnus' distaste for it.

If Magnus does not want Ateenia there, why should Ateenia be allowed to expand there? Do note that I agree with the conclusions of both you and Oyus in that Magnus should have a better reason to oppose this expansion and that if Magnus were to apply to expand here Ateenia has full right to deny it. However, Magnus must agree to this proposal before we the community should recognize it, as stated in the expansion rules 👇

Your conclusion goes directly against these guidelines/rules/whatever they are, and to be frank, it isn't a fair statement to make. If Magnus doesn't want someone taking islands right next to him, why should we be able to override him? I will also make clear that I think this expansion is perfectly fine, save for Magnus's hesitation/refusal to allow it.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Salvia (see edit history)

[Ateenia]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:05 AM, Magnus said:

To be honest, I don’t know exactly what I could do. I don’t want to be “yes for everything”, discounting my own perspective on the expansion. Nor I want to use the rules to my own personal advantage, and drag everyone down by abusing my power. @Salvia thanks for clarifying the rules; arguing that I have the right of voice my opinion.

Please note, I have no intentions of expanding to this island. I admit, it’s great, but not worth expending to currently. So I’am not disagreeing with the expansion to prevent @Ateenia’s expansion and instead make my own. It’s also not because Magnus and Ateenia have bad relations.

I want the islands to be left alone. There just islands. Besides, it is much closer to me then @Ateenia. There are native people we interacted with. If the expansion was accepted, I would hate to RP the side effects. Although it is interesting, second thought, never mind. I have lots more to RP, such as making Magnus’s news threads and Foreign Affairs office.

Also, @Ateenia makes it hard for me to compromise. He states that he must own the island, so no sharing or some kind of organized management. I was hoping for that; this way we can fulfill both of our intentions. That was a very disappointing statement to me. 
 

If @Ateenia is willingly to compromise and explore more of the possibilities, then it would be better. I would like to see both of us, not only just me compromising and trying to work it out with each other. As @Oyus said, collaboration is the key to everything. 
 

Please note that all the other nonsense such as suspicious are not only the reason. In fact, I apologize for the incomplete and irreverent ideas. 
 

 

i never said im not willing for compromise, its just that the islands must be Ateenian, anything beyond that, im open to hear some compromise options, including historic lore.

 

On 12/20/2021 at 11:28 AM, Metztlitlaca said:

Okay, I think its about time I enter the ring after reading this entire clusterf**k of a debate. Though I'll make my conclusion clear now: With some extra wurldbuilding work on Ateenia's end, @Ateenia should be allowed this expansion despite Magnus' distaste for it.

This largely comes from @Magnus's appeared inability (or unwillingness) to separate OOC and IC discussion when it comes down to his reasons why. By allowing Ateenia to expand here (historically in 1600s to 1700s) you are not giving up anything politically in-universe. TRIDENT won't see you or Prymont anymore or any less of a threat and most certainly Ateenia CANNOT go against his reasons for the initial expansion without consulting staff, if his expansion is about incorporating these islands to secure historic shipping lanes but then his actual written expansion is about political tension with Prymont, his expansion would be voided as a breach of trust with the staff. Once Ateenia owns the islands officially he may start a new modern day RP thread about whatever on the actual islands, but it will be - as stated- modern day. As in, Magnus the nation can actively object and protest and gather allies and friends to push back against Ateenia.

Eurth is not a competition for whoever gets the biggest borders or who can politically subjugate their neighbours: Its a roleplaying game based around cooperation OOC to allow for cooperation and conflict In-Universe. There is no reason to be 'suspicious' of Ateenia because Ateenia LITERALLY CANNOT DO ANYTHING without telling others, NO ONE CAN. We can all read each other's threads and if Ateenia doesn't want to become a social outcast of Eurth and its community he damn well knows not to be coy with his plans. Even myself with my own ""secret"" plans for my nation (or event nations I share with others) I share with people involved (such as Stedoria and Seylos regarding the Sentist State) or make obvious hints, and I would hope Ateenia would do the same.

Also regarding this: 

Magnus if you could provide a link from the forum where this is written down and made canon I would very much appreciate it. If this isn't on the forum it will be discarded.


Now the actual expansion itself:
The stats look fine, basically just Svalbard, though I would like you to write a more in-depth piece on these islands such as their history and economy, and the rough details on how you plan to perform this expansion so we (the staff) can have a more accurate view of your idea of these islands to give a fair assessment once you've completed the expansion.

Well history would be pretty much like i said, first settlements were temporary and focused on whaling and hunting seals while conflicting with the native nanuvat, who travel to these islands to hunt seals themselves, having conflicts over getting the hunting grounds for themselves as well as Ateenians taking revenge and sometimes protecting polar bears that the nanuvat might hunt as well both to let the seal population prosper and to get polar bear fur. At that time, these islands would just be claimed islands that really didn't have any permanent population at the time.
Of course the Nanuvat and the Ateenians weren't at conflict all the time, there were peaceful periods and times that Nanuvat and Ateenians even co-existed on the islands.

At late 19th century, when coal was discovered, many nanuvat and Ateenians settled down there to take advantage of the prosperous coal deposits and mine it, alongside the government luring people to migrate to the islands to mine the coal, whether it was with money and power or lies and propaganda. Because the islands don't have trees, the first houses were built to house multiple families to decrease the demand of imported wood from mainland Ateenia.

As the first permanent settlement was founded, influencal families started popping up which often conflicted with eachother for power to a point where there were small conflicts fought on the islands, until the Kingdom itself came to the island and the king chose a single, most suitable family to rule over the islands that would then become jarldom and the head of the influencal family would become jarl, which as i stated before, would be ethnic nanuvat family which at modern era would probably have alot of Ateenian blood already, through royal bethroals and marriages.

The rest of the history would be pretty uneventful, I might add some events in the future, like involvement of other RPers, but this is what i have for now.

The coal deposits would run dry pretty recently in history, like year 2013 recently, (actually Ateenian calender is the true calender and thus the year would be 1941-1942) and thus after that the gdp of the island would be on a downfall trend that is still going, though is expected to stop as the island becomes more important for trade routes and research. This leads me to what modern Nanubard economy would be like, atleast the general part of it.
The sectors of the islands would be shipping, research, fishing and tourism in modern era. They would both have small ports to resupply and repair any ship that might need to do so, that travels to the polar sea route, mostly by the Polar Service which is located on the 2nd island from west, while the local companies will be focused on more domestic ships. Researchers would also be pretty dominant, with the islands having a few research facilities to watch the skies that would be quite beautiful (unless its cloudy night) thanks to the lack of light pollution and pollution overall and do other research (im not entirely sure what kind of research is done in the arctics IRL). Tourism to the island would also be pretty sizeable I imagine, due to the islands being one of the most northernmost islands in the wurld. Homelessness would be almost non existant as life without a roof over there would be a pretty short life, that is why the local employers own almost all of the housing and provide their workers with housing. 

Tourism on the island focuses on the environment and includes hiking, exploration of glacier caves and trips with snowmobiles aswell as camping. Tourism would also be the primary source of income for the island in modern era.

 

As for how I plan to do my expansion RP. I want to do it through in person RP (or whatever you call the RP where you RP certain characters doing stuff and talking and such) and journals of first settlers. So a few stories from founding of first whaling settlements to the story on conflict between powerful families that lead to a single family becoming the jarl of the island, under the Ateenian monarch and the first permanent town being founded.

 

(Man this is such a huge wall of text, i should have used this energy to make my midwinter post that i should have done 3 days ago.)
 

 

[Seylos]

1 hour ago, Magnus said:

Continuing on this, I approve @Ateenia’s request to expand. While we do not currently have any relations, this would be some great start for the forming of relations. We are close neighbors, and that island is in the reach of Magnus after all. 

In this case I suggest we get the ball rolling on what you two want these islands to be now that we can agree the expansion is going forward.

[Tagmatium Rules]

22 minutes ago, Magnus said:

So we’re sorting out the details of the expansion. Your suggesting me and @Ateenia figure it out here or start planning our first RP of the first island?

Ideally, first one and then the other.

You could even use DMs.

[Ateenia]

2 hours ago, Magnus said:

Ok, after coming back to this thread and reading it over, I’am changing my view on this whole expansion and seeing the mods argue over me and my right to deny this. It’s clear that my own choices are blocking this, so I would like to apologize for what I have done.

First, this expansion is probably perfectly fine. Me making up irrelevant and just stupid excuses to prevent it is very ignorant of myself, and we have multiple community moderators trying to get me to collaborate with @Ateenia which I repeatedly refused to. That came to the point where the RP moderators  are trying to override bypass the rule that says the initiator of the expansion nation’s closest active RP members must agree. 

That brings a lot of problems which can be solved by simply naming better and more responsible decisions. Although I do have the right to oppose this expansion, I should only when there is a justified reason and it is within reasonable terms. Abusing your rights on this is very unfair and negative, which I apologize deeply for doing.

Continuing on this, I approve @Ateenia’s request to expand. While we do not currently have any relations, this would be some great start for the forming of relations. We are close neighbors, and that island is in the reach of Magnus after all. 
 

With that in mind, I would like to request a research station/building in that island. Like what @Ateeniastated, lack of light pollution and the fairly far distance from the “common mainland” makes it perfect for more secretive but still acceptable research. More information can be determined later, and Magnus is welcome to share the findings in the research to @Ateenia.

Also, it would be great if government/military of Magnus be welcomed to travel and visit the island. If there’s a research station, Magnus would like to send it’s scientists there and some government officials for meetings with Ateenian Officials. Also, Magnus can provide military forces to protect the island.

Regarding that the island is of Ateenian ownership, Magnus vows to follow Ateenian Common Law and it’s associated regulations. @Ateenia can provide more information on this. If @Ateenia requests that Magnus ceases operation on the island, Magnus shall comply. 
 

This is a huge wall of text, didn’t have to do it if I didn’t make a massive mistake but this wall of text is ultimately worth it. Should have made this way earlier. 

Research station is fine, government officials would be better off in mainland Ateenia with an embassy or consulate. Military is a no, unfortunately, only the Ateenian military will be in presence there with a base or 2.

As for laws and regulations... idk, don't kill polar bears and don't try to spread non-Vjoldinist faiths in our lands, I'm not really sure what to provide on that matter.

45 minutes ago, Seylos said:

In this case I suggest we get the ball rolling on what you two want these islands to be now that we can agree the expansion is going forward.

I think it's been settled it will be a jarldom of Ateenia, so just like every other jarldom (province) in Ateenia, with the addition that Magnus has research station on one of the islands, where his staff can stay, VISA free.

Unless @Magnus has something else to add

[Ateenia]

15 hours ago, Magnus said:

That’s all good, I’ll live just fine without my army in your islands. My government will some point establish diplomatic relations in mainland Athenian, that’s solved. Well, Magnus has no reason to cut down trees or kill polar bears, it’s a environmentalist nation after losing. 
 

I’ll request the research station on the biggest island your expanding to. Speaking of that, I suggest you find some suitable name for the islands, so we all can save the hustle of using the wurld “island” multiple times. 
 

Although Basic expiation for laws and regulations/stuff are ok for right now, it would be preferred if an formal copy of the official laws and regulations be published. So we don’t have “I didn’t know that was law-breaking” coming out of mouths.  If you prefer to have a drafting session where shorter and more “chat-like” discussion, we can do that via a private forum message. We don’t need entire forum post for two sentences. 
 

Thanks for the VISA free stay. I was going to ask that tourists (Magnus Citizens be allowed to vacation at the islands, but never mind because no one (unless you need badly an economic boom in Tourism) wants citizens crammed inside islands. Overpopulation is unhealthy. Regarding that, are Magnus companies such as a fishing business or other be allowed to apply and buy land on the islands? This would be great for development, but it all depends on if you like foreign entities to be on the islands.

 

Also, one more thing. For example, the native people on the island are either given a choice. They can stay there and comply with Ateenian common law and stiff or flee to Magnus. There, they will become citizens automatically and have full rights as a Magnum. Theoretically, they can rebel and yesterday I even wrote like an essay long RP on it, went to another tab to add an image, and IT CRASHed. My progress was losted forever, I was disappointed so Holdeded off. But now I support the expansion, I don’t know if It’s within the RP rules to make an RP in the Native’s Point of View on the whole expansion stuff. 
 

Anyway, there’s lots of more questions and information I need to add. It’s so much I cannot fit it into one post, and if I did it would be sky high. So I’am going to see @Ateenia’s response post and then reply accordingly.  
 

Btw, i'll find it very cringe if Magnus is just now establishing relations with Ateenia instead of idk, thousands of years ago because IC, Magnus has always existed.

I also gave the islands a name, the islands of Nanubard, i'll get to naming individual islands once i RP the expansion.

I also dont realy have plans for making a whole document of laws of Ateenia anytime soon because that's very, very large project, when you do something in Nanubard, once i own them, you have to go through me with the post anyway so i'll let you know then if i feel like something you are doing is illegal or not, before you post it so you dont have to really worry about accidentaly breaking Ateenian laws because you didnt know them OOC.

Tourist VISA would be very easy to get and would honestly not get that much in the way to visit Ateenia and Nanubard islands, Tourist VISA request would almost always get approved, unless you are a wanted criminal.

As for natives of the island, well according to Iverica, the natives are nomadic, so they dont actually live on those islands (for obvious reasons because them islands are covered in ice and snow all year long because of the arctic climate.) but instead travel to the islands to beat the shit out of seals with clubs. Well in modern era it would apply to majority of Nanuvat anyways because a huge part of the Nanubard population would be composed of Nanuvat (allbeit they would be pretty Ateenianised), maybe even have them be majority of the population of the islands, not too sure yet and they would be able to travel to these islands without VISA or any documents really. (the perks of having ethnic Nanuvat be the jarl of the islands.)

 

Oh also your research station on the biggest island is fine.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Ateenia (see edit history)

[Ateenia]

30 minutes ago, Magnus said:

Sorry for the double post and maybe inactive thread bumping, but is there any updates regarding this? I just spent an entire day writing an business news thread out of boredom and my fondness for interesting news, and I’am waiting on this one.

I don’t see any map updates or RPs or anything at all.

Im in the process of writing one, will take some time

[Tagmatium Rules]

10 hours ago, Magnus said:

Sorry for the double post and maybe inactive thread bumping, but is there any updates regarding this? I just spent an entire day writing an business news thread out of boredom and my fondness for interesting news, and I’am waiting on this one.

I don’t see any map updates or RPs or anything at all.

I'm not sure if you've noticed but it has been the Christmas period. Many people have gone home to visit their families or have otherwise been engaged with real life. This will explain the lack of activity.