OOC: The Canal in Volta

[Kolhar]

Since it looks like Volta's borders are nearly set, I figure it's time to start working out how the country fits into the rest of the wurld relations wise. And one major point that has been brought up a few times, both on this forum and on the discord, is what to do with the Manamana Canal. Since this was an RP that started before I joined, and had other people involved, I would very much like to start a discussion to see if we can come to some sort of agreement about what to do with it.

My personal position:

The political entity: I don't want Volta to have anything like another country inside it's borders, and would very much prefer that Volta have full control over it's internals without having another entity enclaved within it. But this is just talking about the political entity, and has nothing to do with the canal.

The canal: Volta would definitely have still been interested in making some kind of canal, whether or not it'd be in the exact shape of the Manamana canal is something to be discussed. Honestly when it comes to the canal I'm open to ideas.

Just note though that the Voltan military, and in particular the navy, would have pushed hard for Volta to make some kind of canal at some point in time, just because of the hassle it would be to have to maintain two separate fleets. I mean, if a ship on one side of the country is assigned to a fleet on the other, it'd have to go around an entire continent, and that's just tough, so they'd want a canal for sure.

So, what is everyone else's position on this? In particular I'm interested in hearing from those that took part in the Manamana RP.

Apologies about not tagging anyone as I'm not aware who was involved in it.

[Tagmatium Rules]

The lazier route would be to follow a similar history to the IRL Panama Canal - built in the past, with anything about it once being foreign owned or run in the past, too. But that might not be the best way to go about things.

[Fubukino]

I've long advocated that this canal should be a historical endeavor and not a present day one and will continue to do so. If the canal were open to other nations, Oyus, dependent on the time period, would've certainly contributed to it if outside investment were found necessary. As far as the Manamana RP goes, it didn't get very far and the few involved are practically inactive save for maybe one or so? It'd likely be best to reboot the RP if it were to be done, something that had been previously discussed.

[Kolhar]

6 hours ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

The lazier route would be to follow a similar history to the IRL Panama Canal - built in the past, with anything about it once being foreign owned or run in the past, too. But that might not be the best way to go about things.

 

2 hours ago, Oyus said:

I've long advocated that this canal should be a historical endeavor and not a present day one and will continue to do so. If the canal were open to other nations, Oyus, dependent on the time period, would've certainly contributed to it if outside investment were found necessary. As far as the Manamana RP goes, it didn't get very far and the few involved are practically inactive save for maybe one or so? It'd likely be best to reboot the RP if it were to be done, something that had been previously discussed.

I'm perfectly fine with this canal being a historical endeavor - actually I would prefer it be a historical endeavor, as it would make more sense in Volta's history for it to have been one. The navy would've been getting very impatient by now if they didn't have one yet.

And though personally I'd prefer it not have been foreign owned or controlled at any time, if that is a must I'd be okay with it being built in pre-communist Volta. Though this is a huge change in the RP.

I'm also fine with rebooting the RP if it must be done, provided we can agree here on what shape it should take.

[Kolhar]

Seeing as nobody else has commented, I'm going to go ahead and make a proposal.

Seeing as my points are as follows:

• I'm perfectly happy with the location of the canal as it appears on the latest V5 map draft (link for reference). It's the straight line to the right of the "Manamana" text.
• I would prefer Manamana not be present within my borders.
• Others have suggested the canal be a historical endeavor, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

My proposal is as follows:

• Manamana Canal renamed to the Volta Canal (cuz honestly why not)
  • Honestly the specific name isn't a big deal to me, any name that isn't "Manamana" is fine by me lol. Just because, speaking OOC'ly, whenever I see or hear "Manamana" my brain always goes to this (link).
• Canal should be a historical endeavor of Volta. How far back can be discussed in detail later on, but I do have some ideas.
• Canal could have been funded by SSI (either partially or fully, both work for me as long as Volta still retains full political control over its borders), so as to maintain continuity, provided that time-frame wise it still makes sense.
• Canal could have either been build by the communist government or pre-communist government.
  • If it's built by the communist government, it could be built sometime between 1950-2000. The navy would have pressured the government to do whatever it can to build the canal and it would have been tough for the government to wait much longer than the 60's, but up to the 2000's is still possible I guess.
  • If it's built by the pre-communist government, it should likely be built in the 1870's or 1880's. Likely would be a prestige project of Eugen Rathenau, to make such a potentially important canal, so I can easily see him starting the project sometime after he gains absolute power in his self-coup. It would also mean that, if Eugen had to fund it by taking on debt, the communists would repudiate that debt and refuse to pay it, potentially causing some trouble for Voltan Communists when the Socialist Federal Republic is first formed

Does anyone have any objections?

Also, is anyone who was previously involved in the Manamana Canal project that is still active now? I'd like to ping them if I can.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Volta
Better quality YT link (see edit history)

[Fubukino]

Tagging Team Aurelia for any further comment prior to anything moving forward. @Metztlitlaca @Anatea @Shffahkia @Kirvina

[Anatea]

Here i am, sorry!

About what Volta proposed i find it oke, i mean, i dont have any objection... especially about changing the name of the canal, Manamana is just hilarious ahahah x'D but Volta canal would be good

About the construction and historical event, i just have a little question for @Volta : will other nations be able to pass through the canal or will be just something for the government of Volta?

[Kolhar]

1 hour ago, Anatea said:

Here i am, sorry!

About what Volta proposed i find it oke, i mean, i dont have any objection... especially about changing the name of the canal, Manamana is just hilarious ahahah x'D but Volta canal would be good

About the construction and historical event, i just have a little question for @Volta : will other nations be able to pass through the canal or will be just something for the government of Volta?

Okay so regarding who can use the canal: Volta knows that if they restrict it to the government of Volta that'd probably put a huge target on their backs so Volta would allow other nations to access it provided they follow a few ground rules.

1. Any nation directly at war (as in troops, ships, and planes are literally shooting at each other war) with Volta will be denied access to the canal, for obvious reasons.
2. So long as a country (or really whoever owns the ship passing through the canal, be it a private company or a government) is willing to pay a transit fee, they'd be allowed access to the canal. This is similar to what you have to do when transiting the Suez Canal or Panama Canal irl.
3. Volta may grant free access to the canals to a country that has a special agreement with Volta. These agreements would only be granted to certain countries where Volta believes it would gain more from providing free access than by charging the toll. So most countries wouldn't get this exemption, and only a select few will.
4. In general Volta will avoid denying access to the canal for other countries, just as an attempt to not give other countries a reason to invade (like what happened with the Suez Crisis irl). That's not to say Volta will never deny access, just that for something like that to happen you must have really really pissed off Volta by doing something extreme (for example, point 1 on this list, or outright invading a neighboring country for no good reason whatsoever, or openly sponsoring a terrorist attack against Volta, etc).

Now for IC history, I'm thinking that the military would have pushed hard for it to be an only-for-Volta thing, but the government would say no and open it up to international transit, both to avoid putting a target on Volta (as mentioned already) and also to rake in that sweet sweet transit fee cash.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Volta (see edit history)

[Anatea]

On 7/7/2021 at 5:00 PM, Volta said:

Okay so regarding who can use the canal: Volta knows that if they restrict it to the government of Volta that'd probably put a huge target on their backs so Volta would allow other nations to access it provided they follow a few ground rules.

1. Any nation directly at war (as in troops, ships, and planes are literally shooting at each other war) with Volta will be denied access to the canal, for obvious reasons.
2. So long as a country (or really whoever owns the ship passing through the canal, be it a private company or a government) is willing to pay a transit fee, they'd be allowed access to the canal. This is similar to what you have to do when transiting the Suez Canal or Panama Canal irl.
3. Volta may grant free access to the canals to a country that has a special agreement with Volta. These agreements would only be granted to certain countries where Volta believes it would gain more from providing free access than by charging the toll. So most countries wouldn't get this exemption, and only a select few will.
4. In general Volta will avoid denying access to the canal for other countries, just as an attempt to not give other countries a reason to invade (like what happened with the Suez Crisis irl). That's not to say Volta will never deny access, just that for something like that to happen you must have really really pissed off Volta by doing something extreme (for example, point 1 on this list, or outright invading a neighboring country for no good reason whatsoever, or openly sponsoring a terrorist attack against Volta, etc).

Now for IC history, I'm thinking that the military would have pushed hard for it to be an only-for-Volta thing, but the government would say no and open it up to international transit, both to avoid putting a target on Volta (as mentioned already) and also to rake in that sweet sweet transit fee cash.

Great! super thank your for the reply, i agree with all the points

[Kolhar]

10 hours ago, Anatea said:

Great! super thank your for the reply, i agree with all the points

Oh I should have put this in my last reply - but also any ship sailing under the banner of the Voltan government-in-exile will be denied access to the canal. Not only that, but they would also have a chance of being seized for belonging to a rebel organization should they sail into Voltan waters.

This'll less be because the Voltan government would want to do it, and more because if they accept the government-in-exile as a valid flag state it might lend some legitimacy to the government-in-exile, and they absolutely do not want to do that.

I doubt there'd be many ships sailing under that flag, if any at all, but it's just a note.

[Kolhar]

Seeing as nobody has objected yet, I shall get a little more specific with my proposals.

• Volta Canal is the new name
  • Again, I'm okay with any name as long as it's not "Manamana", so anyone who has a better idea for a name is welcome to suggest it.
• Canal constructed during the communist government, with construction starting in 1952 and ending in 1962. Construction was heavily pushed by the Voltan Navy, with the primary goal being military, but that wouldn't be the publicly stated reason.
• Since the public reason would be civilian, the Voltan government would be open to foreign funding for construction. SSI could be a potential funder (assuming they recognize the communist government at this point in time), and they could've been given free-access to the canal in exchange for the construction funding.
• Location of the canal should be something similar to this linked image.

Now I do have one major question for @Metztlitlacaand maybe anyone else who is an expert in geography.

What is the difference in water levels between the two rivers the canal is connecting? I ask because the Voltan navy would want as little locks as possible in the canal to try make it faster to pass through the canal. The easiest would be to have the water levels be identical and thus negate the need for a locks, and this is what the Voltan navy would push for. But would that be feasible in that area?

For the record, there probably would be a minimum of two locks even if the rivers are identical in water level height, just to prevent one river from completely draining into the other.

Does anyone have any objections? In particular, team Aurelia (already tagged Metz, @Anatea, @Shffahkia, @Kirvina)? And also anyone who participated in the Manamana Canal rp as well?

[Xio]

Quote

What is the difference in water levels between the two rivers the canal is connecting? I ask because the Voltan navy would want as little locks as possible in the canal to try make it faster to pass through the canal. The easiest would be to have the water levels be identical and thus negate the need for a locks, and this is what the Voltan navy would push for. But would that be feasible in that area?

The Volta/Manamana canal as a whole stays within the 0 - 50m elevation range. As the crow flies distance is 39.33km, we can round that up to 40km with all the bumps and curving it would have to do realistically. The Panama Canal is 82km in length and has 12 locks (originally just six) where as the Suez Canal is 193.3km with no locks as it's terrain is very flat. So in reality you'll probably only need 1 to none locks in the canal itself. The rivers themselves are already close to sea level so they'll likely already be very deep and wide. The only issue may be the Voltan government having to deepen the rivers due to the lack of river flow as the two rivers are quite short, resulting in sea water flowing deeper into the rivers. You'd be battling between greater canal efficiency & capacity vs avoiding your fresh water lake (that'll probably be your lifeblood in terms of water usage) from becoming contaminated with salt water.

All in all the geography of the area is perfect for a on-the-cheap initial canal, and plenty of room for expansion. It's almost as if it was designed to be that way 😉.


Everything else I'm good with. SSI I believe hasn't ever held an anti-socialist stance (although I'd need @Orioni to verify that as he's the active member with the most knowledge on SSI) so I'd imagine the economic value from the canal would trump any anti-socialist rhetoric. I'd recommend setting up a in-universe canal company and establishing a thread for it that can be used like a second foreign affairs - for nations wanting to obtain access / aid in expansion of the canal / state what they're planning to send through the canal regularly / etc.