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V5 Map - Aurelia and Thalassa Discussion


Xio

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Hello!
As part of the 5.1 Eurth Map Update, I am trying to reach out to all of the continents of Eurth (Aurelia/Thalassa/Alharu/Argis/Marenesia/Europa) in attempt to figure out what changes those in the continent would like. And for the first two continents is Aurelia and Thalassa as much of the foundations for changes have already been put in place or are blank enough for some major restructuring.

As far as I am aware, these are the current discussions / issues with the continent that need to be confirmed / discussed:-
1) Limonaia Replacement NationAn Italian nation that can be a colonial power within Aurelia without having to force new lore into Cristina.
2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement.
3) Should the Thalassa islands be moved to a better position climatically and to allow for cultures found within South East Asia and Austronesia or different cultures entirely.
4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself.
5) Any multimember NPCs required for lore / future RP threads (not expansion nations or NPCs for a single nation).
6) Historic Empires in the region (Including Mesothalassa)

My Opinions:-
2) My current stance for Asgeirria is to just give it a name and flag change similar to the process for Lysia/Fleur de Lys with similar lore and a more clear geopolitical position.
3) In regards to the Thalassa islands I am okay with any concepts / changes as long as Orioni is okay with any changes.
4) Manamana I believe we should create a small Panama-like / Shffahkia-like nation around the canal, and the canal itself still in construction. This shouldn't change any recent modern RPs as the canal has only been built really recently in-universe. Outright removing it is not on the cards as SSI has repeatedly stated he wishes to keep it.
6) Historic Empires, If San Castellino still has his Maya people we could potentially have some Maya ancient empire stretching from Shffahkia to San Castellino to Metztlitlaca. However I believe our focus should be on establishing a canon timeline for the Shffahkian Empire and where it did or did not conquer (at least with the information we have and until a new member comes in and throws a wrecking ball into the continent's lore.)


(Relevant Countries: @Kirvina / @Anatea / @Shffahkia /  @Oyus / @Metztlitlaca (4/6) /  @San Castellino (4/6) / @Esonice (3/6) / @Ahrana (2) / @Cristina (1) / @Orioni (3))
Even if you were not pinged, feel free to also join in the thread - especially if you have ideas for lore or solutions!

Edited by Metztlitlaca
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Just a couple of quick notes:

 

I agree with @Metztlitlaca's proposal for Asgeirria, in keeping the lore mostly the same and NPCing the nation. Despite his shortcomings in realism he was a big player in some RPs and keeping the nation on the map would help with continuity.

As for the Thalassan islands, I'd like to see where it's proposed that they're moved to. 

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Here i am! >:D
Sooo, let's begin:

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:


1) Limonaia Replacement NationAn Italian nation that can be a colonial power within Aurelia without having to force new lore into Cristina.

For example i used Mantella, that is Cristina's NPC. Back in the days was quite a powerful nation (it even had Cristina in its sphere of influence and later on dominion), of course compared to Tagmatium and others was nothing, but could have been like a Venice and Genoa on steroids. The problem is that with me this could work, but maybe with Shffahkia and other italian-alike nations that have more history than me couldn't... so we could have 2 options:
A ) We need like a sort of other italian nation in Europa, maybe a little more powerful 😕 like, let's see... a colony overseas of the Aroman Empire that slowly became like Italy when the empire collapsed (maybe the colony could be in Marenesia or somewhere else), but honestly this option is pretty rad and have a lot of plot holes.
B ) When Mantella found and colonized the Anatean Peninsula, instead of just colonize it they kept going on trying to colonize other areas around it, but maybe in some areas they were repelled or the area was inhospitable/poor of resources and in others (for example Shffakia) they found a perfect base for colonize/trade/spread some culture etc etc etc 😮

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement.

To be honest i never interacted with Asgeirria and i barely saw some of his RPs... oke, i never saw any of his RPs, but some people said that he still wurldbuilt somehow x'D Maybe we can keep it as NPC but its lore could be rewritten a little to make it more realistic or adapt it, in case you want to keep his dictatorship etc, to make it a rogue nation or a nation that creates tensions :0 But with or without him for me it's oke :0

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

3) Should the Thalassa islands be moved to a better position climatically and to allow for cultures found within South East Asia and Austronesia or different cultures entirely.

Ehhhh... can't say much :( But tbh having more Asian-alike nations around would be pretty nice, so up to you guys x'D

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself.

From what i heard/talked/remember with @Shffahkia (correct me if i'm wrong) technically the canal/nation is under a sort of Aurelian League supervision, because without it probably a lot of nations would kill each other for take it lol But i would propose to make it a sort of trust territory for the Aurelian League :0 would be nice because when/if Anglia/external powers will try to seize it, could trigger some interventions, sooo...more RPs eh eh >:D

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

5) Any multimember NPCs required for lore / future RP threads (not expansion nations or NPCs for a single nation).

Sooooo, wait... first i have to make a question: may i still request Expansion nations/NPCs for single nations in the future/another thread or are literally prohibited unless we have the permission to expand? Because i need some NPCs for my lore and my next rp (not expansion) :0 and also because i finished the Dalstavian War, so technically i need the Ruthenian mini-states otherwise if someone will be near me on the map, all the efforts in my rp would be wasted because i did all that for nothing x'D

About multimember NPCs me and Shffahkia were thinking about a sort of big bad nation (the one i proposed back in the days called "Zastov"), and that would be interesting cause it could trigger a lot of other RPs/tensions that could unite/divide some player nations :0 of course we even have to decide a name cause the one i used was provisional x'D
The position and shape of the big bad guy (provisional name Zastov) would be this:
spacer.png

3 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

6) Historic Empires in the region (Including Mesothalassa)

Mmmmmmm....tbh i dunno, for now i don't need historic empires, at least for me in Aurelia, so i'm good :D

Edited by Anatea
corrections lol (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

As far as this goes I'm currently working up an NPC replacement proposal. Asgeirria is understandably needed for lore, but I just don't think it makes much sense for them to exist as they are. What I have of the proposal is not fully fleshed out but so it isn't a secret and so folks have an idea what's being thrown around:

The Proposed NPC would be a former colony of Iverica that functions as a minority ruling the indigenous majority through the form of a stratocratic system and some controversial religious elements. It would be situated on the continent proper in the Aurelian Wastes as to release an area that is more preferred by potential new members and to occupy space thats kind of at the bottom of places people want to be placed. It would in essence serve to fix lore and in the future be a potential punching bag for a future NPC event on a regional basis as opposed to a global one. None of this is final, just what I have discussed with @Ivericaso far before making a formal full fledged proposal work up and thread.

4 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

5) Any multimember NPCs required for lore / future RP threads (not expansion nations or NPCs for a single nation).
6) Historic Empires in the region (Including Mesothalassa)

I have Fearannteth having had some colonies that achieved independence, not many and mostly in areas that no one would have cared to colonize anyhow. An attempt at empire gone wrong I like to say 😛. Not something I really have brought up or worked as I've been more focused on fleshing out Fearannteth proper and Oyus before getting into the nitty gritty of former possessions turned independent colonies. This shouldn't be new information as it was previously brought up in the Team Aurelia meeting had.

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5 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself.

Failed to include this in my post so I guess we are double posting now 🤦🏻‍♂️

 

I know the idea that has been floated is to have it managed by an Aurelian League body but with an "independent" nation that has a lot of bureaucracy destroying the benefits and feasibility of using the canal. I wouldn't be opposed to this if the canal is already built and a historical RP is written to justify its current existence without messing up anyone's economic plans. In turn in present day we could RP cutting through red tape so its more feasible to use the canal.

If that route isn't taken though, I'd rather that an NPC not overseen by any international body be created and the canal is just still under construction as stated. I dont really care for having an RP for something only not to use it. Not as fun as it sounds.

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19 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

3) Should the Thalassa islands be moved to a better position climatically and to allow for cultures found within South East Asia and Austronesia or different cultures entirely.

Please let's not move islands again. It's a real pain in the behind, with little benefit. In stead of copying RL cultures we can strive to create our own versions.

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"2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement."

Asgeirria Proposal A: Aroman Aspera
Aspera.png

 

History
300 CE. With knowledge of a southern route, two waves of Aroman pagans rush to escape what was once their homes in the now-collapsed Aroman Empire. Many died on their journeies, but eventually they reached a cold southern land now known as Aurelia. But the lands they found were cold and brutal, near-uninhabitable. The smaller of the pagan groups, the Doric Pagans, ventured further west, eventually founding Kirvina in the more lush central Aurelia, whilst the larger, latin, group remained in the bitter cold. Over the decades their numbers declined until only a small group remained on the coastline, but thanks to the aid of the natives they survived. By modern day they still cling on as a small impoverished but highly militerised and paranoid state known as Aspera.

Flag
Originally the Asper used the same flag as the Aroman Empire, but lacking resources and knowledge for centuries the flag gradually simplified until just the Alpha was painted upon a red banner. The modern autocratic government making the current design official.
Aspera.png


Other
Asgeirria could remain as an exonym of Aspera, perhaps being distorted by the similar sounding Doric word “Ápeiros” from Kirvina. But this nations helps in cementing this pagan latin/greek region of southern Aurelia whilst still fitting into Asgeirria’s shoes. It also moves the nation off the island (which has good climate and geography and would be unfair to put an NPC there) into less valuable terrain.

I do not know what the capital or any other cities. Perhaps Asper City / Asperopolis?. Of course none of this is binding and I want to know what everyone thinks. I would also like to see everyone else's proposals (I believe one about Asgeirra being an ex-colony was being floated about?).

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11 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

"2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement."

Asgeirria Proposal A: Aroman Aspera
Aspera.png

 

History
300 CE. With knowledge of a southern route, two waves of Aroman pagans rush to escape what was once their homes in the now-collapsed Aroman Empire. Many died on their journeies, but eventually they reached a cold southern land now known as Aurelia. But the lands they found were cold and brutal, near-uninhabitable. The smaller of the pagan groups, the Doric Pagans, ventured further west, eventually founding Kirvina in the more lush central Aurelia, whilst the larger, latin, group remained in the bitter cold. Over the decades their numbers declined until only a small group remained on the coastline, but thanks to the aid of the natives they survived. By modern day they still cling on as a small impoverished but highly militerised and paranoid state known as Aspera.

Flag
Originally the Asper used the same flag as the Aroman Empire, but lacking resources and knowledge for centuries the flag gradually simplified until just the Alpha was painted upon a red banner. The modern autocratic government making the current design official.
Aspera.png


Other
Asgeirria could remain as an exonym of Aspera, perhaps being distorted by the similar sounding Doric word “Ápeiros” from Kirvina. But this nations helps in cementing this pagan latin/greek region of southern Aurelia whilst still fitting into Asgeirria’s shoes. It also moves the nation off the island (which has good climate and geography and would be unfair to put an NPC there) into less valuable terrain.

I do not know what the capital or any other cities. Perhaps Asper City / Asperopolis?. Of course none of this is binding and I want to know what everyone thinks. I would also like to see everyone else's proposals (I believe one about Asgeirra being an ex-colony was being floated about?).

I'm absolutely oke with this decision :0 especially for the fact that at least we save a good island spot for a new player and we are able to wurldbuild a little more the latin alike native tribes/civilizations in Aurelia 😮
Sooooo, super great! >:D
About the capital maybe something around Asperia, or Speria (Spe means hope in latin, it would make sense given the fact that they hoped to survive in the new land they discovered, but of course those are just ideas :D

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I don't mind in being replaced as the main Italian country, but I use much of the real wurld Italian culture, companies and industrial products in Cristina and Mantella's lores and I would like to keep them. I am also open to be relocated to another spot in the Europan Continent, since @Magnaeus is inactive and Fleur de Lys is no more.

 

Sorry if I am being late to answer you guys, I am participating in a task force against Covid in my city and the battle is being very hard.

 

 

Edited by Cristina (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, Metztlitlaca said:

"2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement."

Asgeirria Proposal A: Aroman Aspera
Aspera.png

 

History
300 CE. With knowledge of a southern route, two waves of Aroman pagans rush to escape what was once their homes in the now-collapsed Aroman Empire. Many died on their journeies, but eventually they reached a cold southern land now known as Aurelia. But the lands they found were cold and brutal, near-uninhabitable. The smaller of the pagan groups, the Doric Pagans, ventured further west, eventually founding Kirvina in the more lush central Aurelia, whilst the larger, latin, group remained in the bitter cold. Over the decades their numbers declined until only a small group remained on the coastline, but thanks to the aid of the natives they survived. By modern day they still cling on as a small impoverished but highly militerised and paranoid state known as Aspera.

Flag
Originally the Asper used the same flag as the Aroman Empire, but lacking resources and knowledge for centuries the flag gradually simplified until just the Alpha was painted upon a red banner. The modern autocratic government making the current design official.
Aspera.png


Other
Asgeirria could remain as an exonym of Aspera, perhaps being distorted by the similar sounding Doric word “Ápeiros” from Kirvina. But this nations helps in cementing this pagan latin/greek region of southern Aurelia whilst still fitting into Asgeirria’s shoes. It also moves the nation off the island (which has good climate and geography and would be unfair to put an NPC there) into less valuable terrain.

I do not know what the capital or any other cities. Perhaps Asper City / Asperopolis?. Of course none of this is binding and I want to know what everyone thinks. I would also like to see everyone else's proposals (I believe one about Asgeirra being an ex-colony was being floated about?).

Arome lives!

It just got burnt a couple of times.

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"2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement."

Asgeirria Proposal B: Iverican Sefesia
This proposal isn't really original, and is more-so a CTRL+C CTRL+V of Oyus' proposal. The name comes from the Sefes people, a Iberian Celtic group. I wanted to bring to light some of Iverica's non-Spanishness for this ex-colony. Another alternative name is "Libertadia". Sefesia/Libertadia's history is primarily sourced from Pre-Roman Iberia, Liberia, South Africa, Rhodesia, and the Huguenots colonies of France.

Sefesia.png?width=805&height=630

History
Sefesia would be a diaspora colony (unlike Mauridiviah and San Castellino) made up of several still-standing celtic groups within the country of Iverica. Their goal was to establish a new homeland away from the influence of Iverica, thus their colony was primarily found around the arid Aurelian Wastes where your typical Ivericans wouldn't dare settle. At first their colony saw intense hardship, but eventually they managed to settle the coastline and used forced labour by the natives to maintain a stable economy throughout the 1600s and 1700s. By the late 1800s slavery was increasingly seen in a poor light, and thus Sefesia reformed itself into the Democratic Republic of Sefesia where "all men were equal". In truth the nation became increasingly apartheid with a ruling white class and a servant/working "red" class (as the White Sefesians would call it). Several attempts at reforms, coups, and revolutions have all ended in failure and only caused the state to tighten its grip over its population - but a grip can only be so strong before everything slips out between its fingers.

In the modern day the Democratic Republic of Sefesia have largely become an apatheid isolationist state, although does partake in [any treaties/organisations Asgeirra is in] lightly. Their capital is the city of Tartessus.

Flag
Sefesia.png?width=1260&height=630

 

 

"4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself."

Manama Proposal A: The Syndicalist Republic of Manamana
The 
Syndicalist Republic of Manamana is a nation of bureaucratic pandemonium with enough red tape and economic restrictions to wag a China at. The nation's claim to fame is the (in)famous Manamana canal, which would be the wurld's greatest trade crossing if it wasn't for the nation's vicious corruption and internal strife. The capital of Manamana is Balam, from the Mayan "báalam" for "jaguar".

Manamana.png?width=700&height=630
(Ignore the missing asterisk on Manamana)

History
Once a part of the Shffahkian empire, it lasted all but a couple years of independence before falling into civil war after civil war. It was only in the 20th century did Manamana (known then as the 3rd Manamana Republic) find any hope of civil peace at the expense of its liberties and dignity as numerous nations and empires across the wurld exploited the nation alongside a profit-seeking government. By the mid 1900s the Sunset Sea Islands were the nation's largest trading (and exploiting) power, who - with the assistance of Manamana's neighbours and other investment groups - expelled numerous native groups from their homes to construct the largest manmade project in history: The Manamana Canal. By the mid to late 1900s the canal was complete and shipments began as many proclaimed the Aurelian Century was to begin, but no sooner did a revolution tear the old regime to the ground to declare the Syndicalist Republic of Manamana, a socialist totalitarian state.

Although the canal is still open in the modern day, the strict hostile negotiation tactics and cut-throat corruption of the state have caused many to prefer the more fuel-consuming route under Aurelia. Few outside of Mesothalassa and Aurelia know much about the country and those that do only know the country as an ever increasing dark splotch in their history, something most would prefer to forget.
 

Other
As you can see on the map, the location and extent of the canal has been changed to be more realistic along with incorporating the lake from a previous unofficial proposal that could be used in the future for an increased capacity sized canal. A new legend will be added for "Canal" as well as the "Place of Interest" symbol being used to label a canal's name.
unknown.png

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Thought I should share my take on these

On 4/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, Metztlitlaca said:

1) Limonaia Replacement NationAn Italian nation that can be a colonial power within Aurelia without having to force new lore into Cristina.

With the rework, I will be reshaping Shffahkia's history away from tradition colonialism and making the first settlers refugees fleeing from Europa meaning Shffahkia will never have been a colony of another nation. As soon as the NPC has an event that prompts something like this, I will be happy.

On 4/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, Metztlitlaca said:

4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself.

Going off from what has been informally discussed in the Eurth Discord VC, the general idea would be that the Manamana canal would already be built in the present day. Instead there would be a historic RP where an SSI politician/businessman goes around each nation involved talking them into making the project happen. As a result, the canal would barely function as balancing the demands of each nation hampers its potential. This would minimize the effect the canal would have alongside giving nations involved a chance to get what they want from the canal. Also the train infrastructure currently in the works in Aurelia would also further decrease its impact. 

In terms of the actual states that might surround it, we had discussed that the canal would be its own supranational territory, possibly under the Aurelian League, and that there be a small country surrounding the canal from which it was carved out of. However, overall I am not excited about his canal and would largely advocate for removal which will not happen, I know.

On 4/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, Metztlitlaca said:

5) Any multimember NPCs required for lore / future RP threads (not expansion nations or NPCs for a single nation).

*cries in Acadian*

On 4/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, Metztlitlaca said:

6) Historic Empires in the region (Including Mesothalassa)

For Shffahkia's part there'd be two. Firstly the !Mayan Empire. Depending on what San Castellino wants to do with their !mayans, if they have them, the size of this empire could be quite large or simply limited to Shffahkia. I'm fine with either. 

Secondly, the Shffahkian Empire that existed from roughly the late 1700s to the mid 1800s. In short, the empire was originally formed around modern-day Shffahkia and approximate area, and would go on to conquer a large portion of Aurelia and possibly other areas over-expanding and later losing to the coalition. In terms of how large this country was, it "needs" to extend some way to Kirvina in order to  justify having the Eustacian Wars with them. 

Edited by Shffahkia (see edit history)
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On 4/24/2021 at 4:14 PM, Metztlitlaca said:

6) Historic Empires, If San Castellino still has his Maya people we could potentially have some Maya ancient empire stretching from Shffahkia to San Castellino to Metztlitlaca. However I believe our focus should be on establishing a canon timeline for the Shffahkian Empire and where it did or did not conquer (at least with the information we have and until a new member comes in and throws a wrecking ball into the continent's lore.)

Sorry to have taken 300 years to answer ^^'

Personally, I like the idea of an ancient Mayan empire very much and I agree that San Castellino was part of it (since, anyway, the local aborigines were Mayans so it would be consistent). On the other hand, it is probable that the empire did not extend beyond the mountains, inland, because there is a desert.

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  • 1 month later...

As discussion on this thread has ended, and the 26th of June deadline has been met, I think it's time to bring this discussion thread to an end. At least regarding the 6 points brought up at the start of the thread:
1) Limonaia Replacement Nation. An Italian nation that can be a colonial power within Aurelia without having to force new lore into Cristina.
2) What is going to be done about Asgeirria in terms of an NPC replacement.
3) Should the Thalassa islands be moved to a better position climatically and to allow for cultures found within South East Asia and Austronesia or different cultures entirely.
4) What is going to be done with the Manamana as a nation but also the canal itself.
5) Any multimember NPCs required for lore / future RP threads (not expansion nations or NPCs for a single nation).
6) Historic Empires in the region (Including Mesothalassa)

1) Limonaia Replacement Nation.
From what has been written here and on the Discord, it appears as thought most have come to the conclusion that @Cristina and Mantella are to be the new Italian colonist replacement states, and that Cristina is up to being relocated to another spot in Europa due to the inactivity of those around her. If this movement is to be done I suspect it should be discussed in the recently made Europa thread, which I will be aiding Orioni with once this thread's loose ends are tied up. 

Shffahkia in the discord has made mention of moving away from Italian culture towards French and once my nation's expansion and soft reboot have occurred I would have done the same, thus reducing the load put on Cristina and Mantella. Anatea has already changed their lore to accommodate the change. All in all I think this has been a success with minimal damage to lore/wurldbuilding/main characters.

2) Asgeirri
So far there has only been 3 proposals for Asgeirria, both by me, as either Aspera or Sefesia. There is also a third in the dedicated Asgeirria thread in which Asgeirria is shrunk down into a city state, (perhaps after a government/state collapse? Unspecified) and is near non-existent. Of course a fourth option is for total erasure however that will most likely upset TRIDENT as it would severely damage their current continuity.

In the near future, all Aurelians and TRIDENT members will be DMed a private poll with all four options. You may vote for more than one option. A post will be made here afterwards with the results.

3) Thalassa Movement
Denied by Orioni.

4) Manamana Canal
There was only one proposal, also made by me, however with the recent placement of @Volta where the canal use to be, it will be up to the Aurelians, Mesothalassans, SSI, and Volta to determine the new lore of this new Manamana Canal.

5) Multimember NPCs
None added.

6) Historic Empires
From what has been discussed, one new empire, a Mayan Empire, and an updated version of the Shffahkian Empire,  are in the works.
For the Mayan Empire, it's likely to have existed pre-300s AD (or collapsed around 300 AD) to avoid contradictions with current Nahua migration lore. The empire would've stretched from north/modern day Shffahkia up to southern San Castellino. The Shffahkian Empire is being reworked by Aurelians and Mesothalassans to be far greater then what is currently proposed (orange/brown), the main lore builders being @Kirvina and @Shffahkia.
Eustacian_Wars.png

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The voting as ended for the Asgeirrian Poll with 10 people voting (including myself). The results are that Sefesia will be Asgeirria's replacement nation with 6 votes and will be added to the upcoming map update!

unknown.png 
(Within the vote, voters were able to choose multiple options and not just one which is why there are 14 total votes)
And for the sake of transparency I voted singularly for Aspera, so my vote doesn't change the results.

unknown.png

Thank you for everyone who took part in the vote, I am grateful for you taking time out of your days for this. Sefesia will be taking Asgeirria's place in TRIDENT - from there those within TRIDENT can decide on how to co-opt them into the group. If tweaking the lore of Sefesia is required to do so then so be it. I'd recommend making Sefesia  post-apartheid state trying to right it's previous government's wrong, but that's only my suggestion :).

In other news, Volta has opened up a thread for the Manamana Canal, and as such issues regarding question 4 should go to there to help Volta in lorebuilding the area.

Edited by Metztlitlaca (see edit history)
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