[OOC] Anglia Event | Part I: Great Anglian Crisis

[Anatea]

I hope it will be canon x'D and about Ivy's D20 system, i'm oke to use it sometimes it could be interesting and even break the fact that everything's planned ^^

[Fulgistan]

I'm very excited for this. I'm intending to use the New Wurld Colonization phase as a precursor to my expansion into the Kidney Islands, after which Fulgistan, Yeosan and the Kidney Islands will become the Federation of Alharun Socialist Republics. 

Besides that, I'm very keen to do battle with the Europan imperialists and their New Wurld running dogs wherever the need may be. I am also interested in using the D20 system for some events.

[Seylos]

5 hours ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

I think it would be better suited to be canon but I suppose if it turns out a shitshow like the similar one we did moons ago with aliens, then we can retroactively declare it non-canon

Area 51 still exists in my heart

[Seylos]

So to continue on with the New Wurld landing sites, does anyone else have suggested landing areas for Anglia?

[Tagmatium Rules]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:18 PM, Seylos said:

So to continue on with the New Wurld landing sites, does anyone else have suggested landing areas for Anglia?

How much of a strategy is there?

I assume the landing sites as they are indicated on the map don't represent the initial attack. Presumably those are the stages condensed. I think that Anglia's actions seem to be best compared to the actions of Imperial Japan - there ought to be an intial hammerblow that sends the wurld or a part of the wurld reeling and then Anglia is able to steamroll bits afterwards.

Anglia is equivalent to Tagmatium, roughly, and there is no way that Tagmatium could storm that many nations at one time without support. Admittedly, a few helping hands would be able to improve that.

I'd suggest that Anglia spends time sorting out allies before it tries to bite chunks out of the New Wurld. With the backing of nations such as @Haruspex it would be able to initially sweep the ocean clear for its actions, but that would not last nor would it be sustainable. And it'd clearly be unsustainable to any high command. Imperial Japan was able to take advantage of a wurld War and there is no such thing, although the lack of globalisation might mean that it's a bit easier to deal with.

These are merely some thoughts and I'm rambling a bit.

[Seylos]

4 minutes ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

How much of a strategy is there?

I assume the landing sites as they are indicated on the map don't represent the initial attack. Presumably those are the stages condensed. I think that Anglia's actions seem to be best compared to the actions of Imperial Japan - there ought to be an intial hammerblow that sends the wurld or a part of the wurld reeling and then Anglia is able to steamroll bits afterwards.

Anglia is equivalent to Tagmatium, roughly, and there is no way that Tagmatium could storm that many nations at one time without support. Admittedly, a few helping hands would be able to improve that.

I'd suggest that Anglia spends time sorting out allies before it tries to bite chunks out of the New Wurld. With the backing of nations such as @Haruspex it would be able to initially sweep the ocean clear for its actions, but that would not last nor would it be sustainable. And it'd clearly be unsustainable to any high command. Imperial Japan was able to take advantage of a wurld War and there is no such thing, although the lack of globalisation might mean that it's a bit easier to deal with.

These are merely some thoughts and I'm rambling a bit.

Some good thoughts, perhaps a lot of these "landing" sites will be more places they were able to coerce into client status? Or allies that will become intensely dependent on Anglia in the future.

And also it was meant more in the way of where the rest of the community would have the most fun with their landing zones.

[Delamaria]

49 minutes ago, Seylos said:

So to continue on with the New Wurld landing sites, does anyone else have suggested landing areas for Anglia?

I would say a landing in Argis itself might draw more interest than those fairly far south.

[Orioni]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:16 PM, Seylos said:

1. Nope, I think every single person on the forum is onboard with this being a full canon RP. I doubt this will be a single RP though, this could be many events/RPs over the course of months.

So this big war against Great Anglia _will_ be canon?

I'm asking again because this other part has me somewhat confused.

On 3/27/2021 at 5:01 PM, Seylos said:

Anglian annexations are not permanent. After Anglia is defeated all territories will revert back to unowned NPC status like before the conflict. We can also use this opportunity as an in world reason to help clean up the Europan map later.

So the territorial changes are supposed be canon but _not_ permanent?

[Tagmatium Rules]

11 minutes ago, Orioni said:

So this big war against Great Anglia _will_ be canon?

I'm asking again because this other part has me somewhat confused.

So the territorial changes are supposed be canon but _not_ permanent?

I suppose if the war ends with Anglia defeated, it'll be like the end of every other war - the territory taken by the loser is either handed back or passed into the hands of the victor.

If they win, then we've got another thing coming

This was something I suggested to @Seylos for the starting moves for Anglia. I think it should be added here for something to others to look at:

"So. To not f*ck shit up. If the parts of Suverina that were given as part of the Lockdown of NW Europa thread kick off, as they were formerly Qubdi but for ethnic or religious reasons did not want to be. Anglia acts as a guarantor but is effectively is able to annex them, which emboldens further actions. That way, no premature Tagmatine involvement and it kind of acts as a Sudentenland moment."

[Tagmatium Rules]

On 3/27/2021 at 7:45 PM, Westzeeland said:

I would be ok to have Anglian invasions happen in or near Westzeeland. My military is ok but it will no chance of surviving.

In fairness, your military probably has a lot of defensive plans. They'd be on home turf and operating from an advantage. Your military probably has a good chance at holding out, or at least making the initial attempts at an invasion very difficult. From where you might be located, they'd have to storm the Keelpijp and you'd know they were coming towards you.

A lot of it will depend on what the Anglians do once they're in country. If they go super brutal and start popping off civilians, then capitulation might be the best option. If it's "just" an occupation, your military probably has plans to act as a thorn in the side of any occupiers for a while.

[Ahrana]

Well this would be the perfect time for me to be the new Ahrana and Role Play a active neutrality in the entire situation even in the last stages, the only time Ahrana would actively engage in battle would be to protect its borders and the Argis Area around it. Ahrana will most likely never officially declare war on anyone during this or perhaps after this, what will most likely happen is the country will lobby for peace at all costs. Like I said earlier Ahrana will most likely not declare war but remain neutral unless attacked. 

Like what @Delamariasaid about a landing in Argis, that would be the only way Ahrana would engage militarily but this would be attempted to be avoided at all costs.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Ahrana (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

21 minutes ago, Ahrana said:

Well this would be the perfect time for me to be the new Ahrana and Role Play a active neutrality in the entire situation even in the last stages, the only time Ahrana would actively engage in battle would be to protect its borders and the Argis Area around it. Ahrana will most likely never officially declare war on anyone during this or perhaps after this, what will most likely happen is the country will lobby for peace at all costs. Like I said earlier Ahrana will most likely not declare war but remain neutral unless attacked. 

Like what @Delamariasaid about a landing in Argis, that would be the only way Ahrana would engage militarily but this would be attempted to be avoided at all costs.

It looks like the national colour of Ahrana is yellow.

[Ahrana]

15 minutes ago, Tagmatium Rules said:

It looks like the national colour of Ahrana is yellow.

Im afraid i do not understand the reference. 

[Tagmatium Rules]

17 minutes ago, Ahrana said:

Im afraid i do not understand the reference. 

As in yellow-bellies?

COWARDS.

[Tagmatium Rules]

The way I see it, the Greater Holy Empire has three options in how to react the the crisis as it develops.

Option 1: React to the growing crisis with hostility.

As Anglia carves out parts of western Europa, the Greater Holy Empire will begin to feel threatened, as its self-appointed and possibly imagined role as local hegemon comes under attack. Likely, this will mean that Tagmatium will bide its time for a bit, possibly putting embargo and sanctions in place in order to try to bring Anglia to heel. If or when MH joins forces with Anglia, Tagmatium will feel itself backed into a corner.

Depending on how Anglia responds to the sanctions, a slow path to conflict will probably start. Further invasions of nations around the Raga Sea will possibly mean that Tagmatium intervenes to stop it.

In the end, with MH to the north and Anglian conquests to the south, Tagmatium will probably struggle to do more than maintain its territorial integrity. The Tagmatine military will probably not be able to help the New Wurld but conflict in Europa might mean that the hammer blows against the New Wurld might be less hard.

This is one of the more likely options under the regime under Kommodos but it depends how the New Wurld reacts.

Option 2: Aid the Old Wurld against the New.

As the Amnalos and Raga Seas being dominated by hostile powers, Tagmatium feels it has no choice but to take sides with the rising Europan power. Otherwise it will become eclipsed by the other nations nearby, especially  as MH's seizure of Corinium means that almost all the trade lanes out of Europa are controlled by other nations.

Tagmatium never had foreign colonies and this will be likely the last time it could be possible. It will mean that the Greater Holy Empire is no longer in a forgotten corner of Europa but a true wurld power again, even if it is riding on the coat tails of others. And trashing all the relationships it has built up over the last few years.

In the short term, this would be the most beneficial to Tagmatium, as it might get to take part in the looting of the conquered territories. In the longer term, it could have military defeat at the hands of vengeful New Wurld nations and it would definitely mean ostracism later on.

This is the least likely to happen under Kommodos. The Holy Emperor and Autocrat would not want to up end his foreign policy decisions of the last few years and it is probably the path that would be least understood by the average Tagmatine. It would also meet hostility from within the military, something that has caused three coups and one attempted coup since 1956. Aiding Anglia might well lead to another one and potential civil strife.

Option 3: Armed neutrality.

With the Amnalos and Raga Seas dominated by the cooperation between Anglia and the Haru, trade between Tagmatium and the rest of the wurld is threatened. The other option might be to continue links with the rest of thr wurld through the Argic Ocean. But by remaining on the sidelines, Tagmatium might hope to be able sit out the coming conflict. It is, after all, ringed by powers working in concert with each other. Any war with them will likely be catastrophic.

This, admittedly, will likely see some bridges burned with the New Wurld but also be the least harmful to the Greater Holy Empire. It could also try to pick up the pieces afterwards, especially if its military and economy remain largely untouched. Both sides would probably be unwilling to provoke Tagmatium - it does have one of the strongest militaries and is on of the largest economies on Eurth.

There's a relatively good chance that the Agios Basilikon Kounsistorion will choose to do this, but it will depend on how much support it feels it might get from other nations.

 

---

Obviously, as noted above, some of these options are more likely than others. Option 3 may well lead into Option 1 further down the line. Especially if the Holy Imperial Government decides to take a more cynical (or realistic...?) approach and wait until Anglia has spent itself to strike against it.

Tagmatium is also more likely to not want to throw its more reliable allies under the bus and will try to aid them. If maybe not overtly at first.

[Anatea]

Noice, instead i was thinking to make my 2 mercenaries fighting FOR Anglia at the beginning, just to give a major perspective inside how Anglia operates for create its client states or other stuff :0 then of course when other major powers will be involved and even Anatea, they'll switch to the others and will fight AGAINST Anglia :0

(mostly because they don't wnat to be obliterated by all the rest of the glube :V)

Edited April 10, 2021 by Anatea (see edit history)

[Haruspex]

As with Tag there are a few options for the Haru.

One: They volunteer to join the Anglian economic/military bloc rising out of the ashes of the collapsed old wurld, and offer the industrial and military complexes to that end. In the short term, the experienced combat troops and the ruthlessness of said troops could cause capitulation from a variety of affected countries. As the Haru are already ostracized, they suffer less on that front then say Tagmatium. The downside to defeat is any new territory will be returned, and economic boosting from earlier will have to find other sources.

With the distrust of the New Wurld by the Council and to some extent the Imperial Throne, this is the most realistic approach.

Two: They aid the new wurld in some fashion or another. North Korinon is a link to this doorway, and could be theoretically reached through to do this. Though this would probably mean Seylosi interests and or Iverican. Both are not ideal, but could lead to economic stability beyond Anglian offers or so forth. 

This is possible. Kira'Karn is a progressive imperial monarch, and may look to foster better relations with the New Wurld. If she has the council's agreement, the many ministries and the nod from the major house lords and military command, especially the naval command, the Haru could opt to supplement the New Wurld militarily.

Three: Neutrality. This is probably the least likely to happen, the civilian leadership under the throne is attuned to both of the previous. The only way an inactive front by the Haru is achieved is if the Council opts to try and restrict the imperial authority, of which the military will refuse and this would plunge the nation into civil strife. Since the throne cannot exist without the council and vice versa, the Imperium would devour itself from the inside out under this plan and plunge the old wurld into chaos.

[Orioni]

On 3/30/2021 at 4:16 AM, Seylos said:

Area 51 still exists in my heart

🤫 You must not speak of such things. Unless, perhaps, in the brand-new https://www.europans.com/forum/158-non-canon-works/

On 3/31/2021 at 8:13 AM, Delamaria said:

I would say a landing in Argis itself might draw more interest than those fairly far south.

I'd imagine the supply lines would also be quite overstretched. No sane commander would see this as a logical move. Then again, we're talking about Great Anglia here.

On 4/10/2021 at 11:47 AM, Tagmatium Rules said:

Tagmatium is also more likely to not want to throw its more reliable allies under the bus and will try to aid them. If maybe not overtly at first.

Working from the shadows. Supporting either side just so you can influence any potential outcomes. I like it.

On 4/11/2021 at 12:59 AM, Haruspex said:

In the short term, the experienced combat troops and the ruthlessness of said troops could cause capitulation from a variety of affected countries. As the Haru are already ostracized, they suffer less on that front then say Tagmatium.

This makes your and Tag's position clear. Now you Occidentals only need to figure out how the direct neighbours @Adaptus and @Suverina would respond. It's your collective backyard.

On 4/10/2021 at 11:47 AM, Tagmatium Rules said:

With the Amnalos and Raga Seas dominated by the cooperation between Anglia and the Haru, trade between Tagmatium and the rest of the wurld is threatened.

"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire The EOS-Team."

Edited May 7, 2021 by Orioni
typo (see edit history)

[Orioni]

On 3/27/2021 at 5:01 PM, Seylos said:

•  Anglia will be presumed to have an automatic non-aggression pact with all active Europan players. They will never break this arrangement and will not attempt to disrupt active player held land. This will change when the whole region enters the final "boss battle" phase.

Itching to get involved. Waiting until the final boss battle comes around means sitting on my hands while everyone else gets to throws punches. When will this "automatic non-aggression pact with all active Europan players" expire?

PS: if people are referencing Qubdi, they are certainly welcome to co-write the lore. https://iiwiki.us/wiki/Qubdi Right now it's just Tag and myself.

[Tagmatium Rules]

19 hours ago, Orioni said:

Itching to get involved. Waiting until the final boss battle comes around means sitting on my hands while everyone else gets to throws punches. When will this "automatic non-aggression pact with all active Europan players" expire?

PS: if people are referencing Qubdi, they are certainly welcome to co-write the lore. https://iiwiki.us/wiki/Qubdi Right now it's just Tag and myself.

Ooh.

The perfidious Orinese finally act!

[Orioni]

@Tagmatium Rules The way I read it, no active Europan players can get involved until that final phase. I read what @Haruspex and you are doing, which is what prompted my question. Are we still following the aforementioned NAP or not? /cc @Seylos as OP.

[Tagmatium Rules]

15 hours ago, Orioni said:

@Tagmatium Rules The way I read it, no active Europan players can get involved until that final phase. I read what @Haruspex and you are doing, which is what prompted my question. Are we still following the aforementioned NAP or not? /cc @Seylos as OP.

Well, it's still being followed.

GA has assured Tagmatium that they won't make any move on Tagmatine territory, but equally Tagmatium isn't likely to make any move against GA. So far, Tagmatium has put an embargo on all the nations involved. As well as postured a bit in the Raga Sea.

And, fundamentally, with two relatively big nations working together and something like a fifth or a sixth of the Tagmatine army and between a third or a quarter of the navy involved in Ceris, it's not like Tagmatium could really risk a war at this point.

Non-aggression works pretty well for me right now.

[Haruspex]

Since Angelia hasnt directly contacted the Haru, nor has the Seylosi, the Haru are operating SOP when it concerns a near threat while maintaining public order and carrying on. 

[Orioni]

Thank you both for your clear explanations. My intentions don't include any surprise little green men appearing in the Occident. But the situation would be serious enough to draw attention. I'll go ahead and write up something that involves the EOS. A local security concern like this merits some special attention.

[Tagmatium Rules]

1 hour ago, Haruspex said:

Since Angelia hasnt directly contacted the Haru, nor has the Seylosi, the Haru are operating SOP when it concerns a near threat while maintaining public order and carrying on. 

I think our governments need to discuss a unified response.

Especially since the Haru have been so decent as to guarantee Tagmatium's borders.