[Idea] Limonaia & Their Place

[Glimmer]

Relevant parties:
Team Alharu @Esonice@Eulycea@Faramount@Fulgistan@Heiheguo@Kaitaine@Mauridiviah@Metztlitlaca@Variota@Yeosan
Limonaian Colonies @Shffahkia @Anatea
Others with a stake (or potential one) @Cristina@Orioni@Tagmatium Rules

Recently there has been more discussions about who should stay and who should go as well as there being further development of our regional lores. Limonaia has long departed this community and indicated in no uncertain terms that they had no plans to return, understandably. Thus, this leaves an eternally inactive nation in Alharu. In discussions with some members of Alharu, there is certainly support for the uprooting of Limonaia. A discussion therefore needs to take place. It is without question that we cannot just simply uproot Limonaia. Within my personal knowledge this would directly affect the histories of Shffahkia and Anatea the most as being former colonies of Limonaia, though possibly not the only ones that may be affected. To me, there are a few ways this could go:

1. Wipe Limonaia and found an NPC replacement in a more sensible location, reconciling histories.
2. Wipe Limonaia completely with no replacement and reconcile colonization by Limonaia with Cristina and others.
3. Retain Limonaia and seek their approval for the full use of their IP.

The argument for the first option is probably the one with most work required but, perhaps, the most freedom within my view. Firstly, it has long been a matter of debate about the not so ideal location of Limonaia to be a colonizing nation. There are a lot of hoops it would have had to go through to get to where its own empire is and just doesn't quite make sense - a viewpoint held by others (I just don't recall who they would be.) Secondly, it is a rather desirable spot for potential newcomers and lots of work was done during the climate rework to have it be maintained its climate. To let that work go to waste to be occupied by someone who has no intention of return just doesn't sit well. In my eyes, the most ideal place for a replacement would be somewhere within Europa or Marenesia, if possible. In regards to Marenesia, however, it has been made clear by those involved that they don't see a place for such a state there. Europa would therefore to me be the most sensible.

If the first option is not favored, then perhaps it may work better to wipe Limonaia entirely and help facilitate the reconciliation of their affected histories with other potential suitable nations such as Cristina to derive their cultural foundations. I am not sure how very well that would work on the matter, but Cristina stands as the only nation to my knowledge that is Italian-esque and can serve as a place of origin for those that have Italian flavors, primarily why this may be an option to consider. Though, if this is not necessarily ideal for all involved, in my mind it is a good reason to revisit the first option as there are not many other options I personally se.

The third clear option I see would be to seek approval for the full use of Limonaia's IP. We can reach out to Limonaia to see if they would consent to continuing to use their nation - free license.

The overall purpose of this thread is to spur this discussion with others not just of Team Alharu that we have been having in Discord and come to a satisfactory conclusion to a multifaceted question. Don't hesitate to comment! The path taken could be one that isn't even listed here.

[Anatea]

Here i am!
Soooo about Limonaia you hit some good points, and i read too that infact the Marenesia Team don't want to have him in their continent, and infact i think it's right because, as Gallambria said on Discord:

"Moving a rebranded Limonaia would through an already established and still in-the-works, regional lore."

And i support this thing with the fact that in the end my colonization is just a detail, i mean... i don't want to support the idea of moving an inactive nation for then use it and maybe IF i leave the region in the future (probably not because i love this place) not only there would be an inactive Anatea and Limonaia with no purposes, but a lot of work for the lore of the continent would be wasted like the efforts people put to mantain Limonaia's actual climate. And i don't want to become a burden for Eurth or just waste precious time of other people who are already doing something incredible.
For this i wouldn't have any major problem by being colonized by another power: Cristina, or even better to be precise: The Kingdom of Mantella.
I specified Mantella for the fact that Mantella has a longer history as NPC than Limonaia i think, and by already having a sort of well-established kingdom before 1170 ( @Cristina correct me if i'm wrong) this would be even better because Limonaia colonized Anatea around 1500s, so at least i could even work more on some stuff with Europa or other nations Also it's correct to specify that we would be Mantella's colonies because Cristina wasn't fully indipendent until 2001, before it was semi indipendent, quoting Cristina:

"From 1170 to 1714, Cristina was a semi- autonomous city of the Kingdom of Mantella. In 1714 it became independent. In 1937, Cristina was again annexed by Mantella. In 2001 Cristina got its independence from Mantella again after the Cristinese War of Independence (1998-2001)"

That's why i already tried some time ago to be a colony of Cristina just to make everything simple and without too many problems, but some staff members told me (rightfully) that it was impossible for Cristina to have colonies overseas. That's why the fact that Mantella could have some colonies would have more sense instead of Cristina that in the meantime was fighting for the majority of its history while being re-annexed and liberated from Mantella's dominion. (it's like being colonzied by USA during the war of indipendence, kinda impossible for them for the fact that they were in the middle of a war and with a low population, instead if i was colonized by the British Empire would have more sense because it was an already well-established nation, more powerful and even involved in a sort of colonization race towards new places).

For explain why Mantella chose Anatea as place to colonize would have been for just have a spot for show to the other nations their prestige as both dominators (against Cristina) and colonizers (me), like the italians did when they colonzied Lybia and Eritrea, that in late 1800 were considered just "Cartons full of sand" and oil coff coff buth they did so even for show to the rest of Europe and the Ottomans that they were able to do something and show even its indipendence and power towards Austria. Same stuff about the invasion of Ethiopia, just to show their power to the world lol

This could give me a lot of advances because:
A ) I could have finally some part of my history connected to Europa's nations
B ) I could be involved in some other little rps in Europa or even Marenesia, like a trade war between Salvia/Gallambria against Mantella and some anatean conscripted were used in the war, or even helping Cristina with her current tensions or sustain her economically after the conflict she had.
C ) this would help me to create some real alliances with europan nations or be more involved with them. For example i'd like a sort of interaction with Tag or Ori, especially Tag since we did a little 2 posts RP some months ago about Tagmatium wanting to have some communications with Anatea. In that time would seem a bit weird that a nation from across 2 oceans wanted to have a specific alliance with me, but with Mantella, it would have more sense, like maybe some anatean lords that back in the middle age were linked to some tagmatium lords and same thing could be applied with Orioni or other nations, creating some other interesting rps and involving me even more

Aaaand with that i think i wrote everything i needed, i hope lol Thank you for reading and for letting me say what i thought!

[Tagmatium Rules]

I think I might have flagged up how Limonaia's place on the map petty much meant that any colonising would take place on the forbearance of others, although I doubt I was the only one to do so. I'm also not sure about the "understandable" part of his leaving, since from the outside it seemed like a silly argument with obvious avenues of compromise for both sides but here we are.

I don't mind who gets replaced or where this possible NPC gets put, just so long as it makes sense and, if there are PC nations nearby, everyone agrees.

I know @Seylos floated the idea of replacing Byzantium Nova and that's fine by me. His nation pretty much represents an awkward thing for me for obvious reasons. Hoops would have to be jumped through to reconcile aspects of the regional lore for that one as well

I'd almost like to put myself forward as a coloniser but for the fact that I'm pretty much in a similarly bad position for colonising as Limonaia currently is. I think my history is best left focussing on the activity around the Occident and the central Europan seas.

I can still dream about a little sunny island of my own, though. 😭

Although a new NPC coloniser is probably my preferred choice and likely that of everyone else, I'd suggest that it might be easier if it was a PC nation. Otherwise, I'm happy to throw my vote towards what seems to make the most sense for everyone.

[Salvia]

I'll float a radical idea because why not - why not use/change/replace Adaptus?

I know he's supposed to be Greco-Roman but if it doesn't throw a wrench in any works by changing him to !Italian I'd say it would be a decent option.  Personally I'd go with reworking Byzantium Nova, since it seems to work out pretty well with everyone with minimal struggle.  It'd be close to other !WesternEuropean nations, as opposed to using an Occidental nation, a region that's, well, not !WesternEuropean.  But I just wanted to throw an idea into the ring and see how it would do  

The religions of the former colonies - of course entirely up to the respective countries - is also pretty open.  Of course it'd make sense to have the parent country's religion (some form of Christianity, most likely) or a native religion dominate, but there is also a Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant presence fairly close by.  Again, totally up to you, I'm just saying this so nobody feels pressured into choosing a certain religion. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Salvia (see edit history)