ISTC OOC Discussions.

[Prymont]

OOC: @Fleur de Lys, you weren't contacted about the invitation of these new members because you'd left Europa. You still haven't returned to the Discord, which is where we discussed these changes, so it's very obvious that you weren't consulted. Why would we consult someone that's left the region? 

[Prymont]

OOC: Think you're taking the piss a bit here. You've left the region and the Discord. I don't know why you continue to write on the forums when for all intents and purposes, you've left. If you want to be involved in the RP, rejoin the region as anyone else normally would, get back on the Discord, and act like you're part of the community. We have a channel on the Discord where we discuss everything to do with the ISTC. You're not in it. Simple as that.

I created the character 'Peter Lafleur' long before I ever took a disliking of you. The similarity in the name is purely coincidental. You're looking into it too much. I wrote my government's cabinet out, which is where Lafleur was created, almost a year ago. I used a random American name generator before I created my Norwegian lore and naming set. I don't really need to justify any of this to you anyway, as that character is completely unrelated to the ISTC and your departure of the region. I doubt you'll believe me anyway. Nice to know you're reading my RP though - thanks.

[Sunset Sea Islands]

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I have pursued for example the RP about the Trilateral Talk with Cristina and Magnaeus

An RP from last August. @Prymont and I viewed this as you tying up loose ends to get done with the region for good.

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Second, one of my NS nation have always been present in the NS region of Europa

So you having a puppet in Europa means we cannot continue our joint RPs the way us active players want to? I call BS.

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Third, I find this bad to OOCly plan and discuss that much, without making actual RP.

This is the beginning of just that RP.

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I find also how it have been done not really appreciable, a RP meeting for instance between our respective Ministers of Foreign Affairs would have been appreciated, as for instance, the Republic shares little ties with Fulgistan and is uncertain of the stance it shall take with Gallambria and Iverica when coming to scientific cooperation.

Tell me again why we should invite the player of a nation that has left the region to a meeting about the decisions the active players made? I call BS again.

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I won't see also why I shall return to Discord to RP

OOC planning so that BS like this doesn't happen.

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

knowing that a certain person have been constantly describing Lysians as arrogant during a mission on the continent of Antargis

IMPERIALIST SCUM STATION NAMED AFTER A BELOVED PRINCE NO IT'S STATION ALPHA CAUSE FRICK ARISTOCRACY, AMIRITE?!

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Exoskeletons along many other terms, technologies or things which I judge unrealistic

📞 Hello Chairman Xi Jingping, yes, it's me, Thomas. Could you please stop the technological progress of your nation? All those recordings of your workers are forged, I know. You're just not a realistic nation, sorry. Bye bby. 😘

23 hours ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I shall not come back on the Discord

And many players are happy you won't, because of debates like this one.

23 hours ago, Prymont said:

OOC: Think you're taking the piss a bit here. You've left the region and the Discord. I don't know why you continue to write on the forums when for all intents and purposes, you've left. If you want to be involved in the RP, rejoin the region as anyone else normally would, get back on the Discord, and act like you're part of the community. We have a channel on the Discord where we discuss everything to do with the ISTC. You're not in it. Simple as that.

T H A N K   Y O U

23 hours ago, Prymont said:

Nice to know you're reading my RP though - thanks.

🎤⤵️

[Prymont]

4 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Well too bad, have you asked? I am not here to pay for your illusions.

We're not here to abide by the supposedly definitive hand of someone who has essentially left the region. I do note that you rejoined yesterday, but there was a substantial absence before that.

5 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Please show me rules stating otherwise. Technically, there is no need to let a nation on Europa's NS Region, but I still did it. You can't, as Moderator, invent rules just to befits your convenience. I remember you that as Moderator, you have Duties. Please refer to: http://www.europans.com/wiki/moderator-guidelines/

Again, you had left the region for a significant amount of time. If you have a friend group and someone stops being part of that group, do you still have to invite them on days out? No, because they're not part of the group anymore. We're not going to consult you on IC changes when you're not here.

6 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

This is not what let the “Hereby, the Initiative Scientifique Trans-Continentale invites The Worker's Republic of @Fulgistan, The Kingdom of @Gallambria, and The Republic of @Iverica to join its circle.” along Gallambrian answer let suppose. But I myself, was thinking that this may be the start, which is why, and I quote “except if in your invitation, you ask them for candidacy for being afterwards, selected which shall be a satisfying ground.” to which you haven't yet replied IC and instead, went on a fictive Crusade OOCly.

Well clearly you're not reading it correctly, or are acting dumb to fit your narrative. The start of the IC thread was the beginning of the roleplay that would eventually incorporate Iverica, Gallambria, and Fulgistan into the ISTC. That's the end of that.

7 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

De facto kaduc, as I haven't left the region. And nowhere it is said that leaving the Discord is leaving the region (and even, stating “you leave the region” can be pretty wide, knowing my activity and currently no legislation exist on the said matter, and as a Moderator you clearly do not own or possess such authority, so remain at your place).

You had left the region and only rejoined yesterday. Check NationStates before chatting absolute sh*t.

7 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I don't understand what “BS” means, but whatever?

BS means bullsh*t.

7 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I was actually referring to a post of Prymont, not yours.

He knows. He's referring to the fact that you were also disrespectful IC of the death of Prince Simon, by renaming the Simon Station in your language. Just as I was supposedly disrespectful IC to you.

8 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

I have discussed with two people of the Moderation about those Exoskeletons, and they had agreed with me, so I don't see your point, other then turning yourself in ridicule ?

I do believe that the moderators discussed, on Discord, that the exoskeletons introduced by Synturia are future tech and are thus disallowed. However, you weren't part of the region when the issue arose so you have no right for roleplay-changing input.

9 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

It's because of a certain laziness in applying rules that such things happens.

It's because of a certain someone trying to change the ongoings of a region they're not involved in, that such things happen.

[Adaptus]

You left the region @Fleur de Lys it was listed on the RMB. I saw it with my own eyes. 

As a moderators, we have the disgression to protect our community and our members. And as such, when a memeber who has been inactive in any sense, which you have, then attempts to bully other memebers for events that occurred during their absence, then we have the right to call it as we see it. 

If you wish to have a say in what occurs here, then stay active. Otherwise you have no right to comment on what happens when you are not here. To be quite frank. 

Again. This was the rules for me when I left the region some time ago. And I accepted it. So too should you. You’re not entitled to hold sway if you do not participate. 

[Adaptus]

You can not come and go as you please, and expect to have a say in our events! 

Either you’re here, with your RP nations or you’re not! Don’t dare come here demanding things, when you’ve spend he best part of the last 3 months elsewhere! Or in no contact. You have no right. 

Your situation, sparked a debate some time ago amongst the admin teams for a rule change to prevent this occurring. So no, your activity did not go unnoticed. 

I find attitude towards the people here, who have tried to help you during this situation, quite disrespectful. You feel the need to throw your weight around, and don’t seem to like anything unless you get your own way. And that’s not how we do things here. So you either accept our judgement on this. Or leave. Simple as.

[Andalla]

@Fleur de Lys,

I'd hate to join the fight, but as much as I've been trying to be friendly to you lately to ease our former rivalries, I gotta agree to what @Adaptus, @Prymont and @Sunset Sea Islands have said. No matter what, if you intentionally leave the region, it's an unspoken way of telling everyone that you don't belong here; that you've found another place to belong in, and you no longer wish to stay here. Even if you continue to remain "active".

I am aware that some of us are part of other regions, and I don't oppose that; if they want to fully commit to both regions then by all means they're free to do so. What I oppose is claiming to be a part of our community yet not being fully committed to it - who are you to say you're a part of it when, at the same time, you're doing more elsewhere and less here?

Let's face it - we're not Congress; just because your NS nation or your unused puppet is here doesn't mean you're a part of our RP community. That's it. Anyway, this is the Forum; we have little if not no actual connection at all with our NS region. They're just affiliated brands.

With that aside, let's look at the problem: Does it really affect you? Sure, I'd understand if the decision made in your absence had the power to destroy your nation without approval, but let's think practically - will it? If anything, more members mean more input, and therefore, more output. And even if you don't like these new members getting invited, it's none of your business - anyway, you did leave the region already. Why take on the burden of checking up on your nation even if you've basically neglected it already? And if you're gonna say you haven't neglected it, then why aren't you doing anything to show that?

I'm sorry if my comments didn't help, but this whole thing needs a solid explanation. And that's how I understand it.

[Andalla]

1 minute ago, Fleur de Lys said:

@Adaptus: I see no rules backing your declarations, therefore I decline your generous proposal.

Also, nobody have authority to impose a RP to a player not willing to.

@Andalla: Please be informed that I am currently in 4 regions, and I do feel loyalty to each of them. Now, naturally I'd be ready to RP the entire gait concerning the I.S.T.C., which is what I have been doing by writing the letter. However, Prymont intervened OOCly, and I answered and so on, which lead us to the current thread. In my letter, I clearly open for 3 possibilities, therefore can't say I'm blocking the RP, as in addition, it's an IC letter. Also, I clearly do not neglect it, as I made the redaction of a Treaty for potential trade partners such as Cristina and Magnaeus (along unsuccessfully trying to learn some German and Italian). I'd be more then delighted to receive from one of the I.S.T.C. counterparts a letter, in order to RP all of this and solve the problem, IC, rather then OOCly as it won't work in my opinion.

And there is also a matter which need to be clarified by the administration when coming to rules, which are, and I repeat, hoping @Orioni captured something in his Todoist, the clarification of Membership, conditions of leaving etc.

There's nothing stopping you from feeling loyal to all four regions. But loyalty is shown, and ever since you left Europa, you've been mostly off the radar except when contacted.

I'm on the cellphone right now so I won't go back, but I do believe somebody said something about you using the Trilateral thing as a way to nicely "end" your mainstream RP activity, not to have an excuse to claim being active. Which, honestly, is somewhat true. Anyway, it's also not as if you just made a new post yesterday - it's been months.

I mean, if you've been doing things here and truly being active, then show us. I honestly haven't posted anything but a few replies in months, and that's because I'm busy with RL issues and Skandinavisk, but mostly Skandinavisk. And I guess that's fine with everyone.

[Prymont]

@Fleur de Lys The problem has only occurred OOC. SSI and myself discussed the new additions to the ISTC OOC. You're clearly unhappy with these additions, but as you're not part of the Discord and largely not part of the community, you weren't part of these discussions. The problem lies in your absence in the region and on Discord, not for IC purposes. 

Look. I appreciate all of the work you've done for the ISTC; I remember that you wrote the charter of some sorts, and you were a good, contributing member of Europa in the past. However, you've since moved on as far as everything is concerned. Your nation on NS only rejoined Europa yesterday. That's why you weren't part of the discussions - because you weren't here. SSI and I aren't going to go out of our way to include someone that has left the region. I'm sorry, but that's just how it is. 

As for rules and regulations, according to you we're lacking. Whether or not the admin team resolves this isn't to do with me, but perhaps this region isn't for you if you're going to constantly pick fault with everything the mod team does. Adaptus and SSI have agreed upon their stance, which is definitively against you. You can argue all you want - their stance won't change. Moaning about that further doesn't look good on you.

[Sunset Sea Islands]

1 hour ago, Fleur de Lys said:

Now, naturally I'd be ready to RP the entire gait concerning the I.S.T.C., which is what I have been doing by writing the letter.

'cause nothing shows will to RP something like leaving a region for months. If you had been a part of our community, we would have asked you. But you weren't.

@Fleur de Lys, you're not a victim. You're the child that moved to a different town and starts pouting when its former buddies find new friends and don't invite you to their birthday party.

1 hour ago, Prymont said:

Adaptus and SSI have agreed upon their stance, which is definitively against you.

Allow me to quote the rules visible on our Discord server.

"If more than one admin is against you, chances are pretty high the problem lies with you."

[Prymont]

@Fleur de Lys What a complete, utter lack of respect.

31 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

To quote your quote SSI: "If more than one admin is against you, chances are pretty high the problem lies with you.", fortunately, you're not an administrator just like Adaptus.

SSI is as much of an administrator for Europa as Adaptus is. He moderates the Discord, processes map requests, provides graphical support, and does a whole host of behind-the-scenes things that me and you aren't aware of. With no disrespect to Adaptus intended at all, one could argue that SSI is more of an admin than him, as I've not seen Adaptus process map requests like others have.

Regardless of what tasks they do and don't carry out, SSI is very much part of Europa's administration, and I find it incredibly ignorant and arrogant of you to downplay his role in running the region. 

31 minutes ago, Fleur de Lys said:

you want me to leave definitely the region?

Yes. Please.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Prymont (see edit history)

[Prymont]

@Fleur de Lys I needed no courage at all to tell you to f*ck off. You clearly lack respect for anyone that opposes you, which is an awful trait to have. I hope you one day receive the mental help you so desperately need. For now, get the f*ck off your high horse and grow up.

It seems you have trouble writing in English. It's been so hard to understand you most of the time because of your complete failure at the language. I'd suggest taking some lessons from someone to teach you the basics - that is, if you have the intelligence to comprehend it. 

You're burning all the bridges that you have remaining here. It's clear that, despite your recent 'participation' in the region, you don't want to be here. I assume you're only responding to further boost your ridiculously inflated ego and to hope to eventually prove that you're right. Well, truth is buddy, you're not. I know that'll be a hard pill to swallow, so it's best to grab some snails and cuddle up tight to them so you feel better about yourself. Who knows, maybe their slime matches your awful attitude.

Please read carefully the words in which I am writing, which are echoed by two members of the mod team (see how pedantic I was to make sure to use the right label?). You are in the wrong, and you are not welcome here. 

Please leave.

Edited July 7, 2018 by Prymont (see edit history)

[Orioni]

The main question I still see unanswered in this topic is the membership of IC Fleur de Lys of the ISTC. There a loose ends in RP that need to be resolved. This was ignored in the past, but now it has presented itself again.

1. What happened during the hiatus? How has this impacted your IC relations? What would be the perception of a contributing member suddenly halting their cooperation?
2. How will ISTC respond IC to this reappearance? And if there is a vote or discussion on inviting new members into the ISTC, how would this be affected by internal disagreements? It's not uncommon for allies to disagree. Just look at RL NATO right now.

Whichever course you decide to follow, ideally you four members of ISTC would first resolve this amongst yourself.

(On a more personal level. I feel sad to see this happen. There was a reason why you joined together in the first place. Remember that reason. Could you have foreseen ending up with the current situation? Did everyone do everything in their power to de-escalate the situation?  Do current events really stand in the way of you getting along?)

[Prymont]

At the end of the day, FdL had left the region for a period of time that indicated he'd moved on. While his nation remained part of the ISTC, he wasn't active. How can we consult him about changes when he's not in the region? For example, do I have to contact someone who hasn't been in the region for 10+ years, just to ask if Foolish Bandit can date someone from that country? No, because they've left the region.

SSI and I made the decision in the ISTC channel, which FdL is not part of. That's not our fault. I'm not going out of my way to contact him. If he wants to be part of the ISTC, he can make a full-time return to the region, grow the f*ck up, and be part of the community.

In answer to your questions @Orioni:

1. I assumed that, while FdL had left OOC, he was still present as an NPC IC and continued working normally as part of the group. In my mind, relations weren't affected. 
2. In this case, the only solution I see is to merge IC and OOC happenings. SSI and I, as the two remaining active members of the ISTC, made the executive decision to bring more activity to the group and open it up to new members. FdL had left the region at this time, and can get lost if he wanted to be part of that decision process. Let's assume that the SSI and Prymont have now invested the most amount of money into the ISTC, and thus made the executive decision IC to welcome new members. If FdL wants to dispute this, which he has, then that's fine. @Sunset Sea Islands and myself can work on our own IC response. 

 

Personally, the reason I joined the ISTC was to get involved in a group of people in the region and write some fun RP. So far, that's what we've done. SSI and @Magnaeus are two fantastic members of the group, and I've enjoyed writing with them so far. I don't really care about FdL. Before he left the region, I tolerated him as part of the ISTC and separated my OOC opinions of him from my IC opinions of him. I could have foreseen ending up in the current situation as he's an arrogant prick and I don't like him. De-escalating the situation is difficult when he's involved because he's an arrogant prick. Current events do stand in the way of us getting along, as he's an arrogant prick.

I don't like him and was happy that he left.

[Sunset Sea Islands]

12 hours ago, Orioni said:

• What happened during the hiatus? How has this impacted your IC relations? What would be the perception of a contributing member suddenly halting their cooperation?
• How will ISTC respond IC to this reappearance? And if there is a vote or discussion on inviting new members into the ISTC, how would this be affected by internal disagreements? It's not uncommon for allies to disagree. Just look at RL NATO right now.

If he decides to leave, we'll delete his letter and proceed as if nothing ever happened. Simple as that.

[Prymont]

@Fleur de Lys

Edited July 8, 2018 by Prymont (see edit history)

[Sunset Sea Islands]

On 7/8/2018 at 12:32 PM, Fleur de Lys said:

When you mean leave, you talk about leaving I.S.T.C., or the region?

In my eyes, the ideal outcome would have been if you had never sent that letter. IC you should stay in the ISTC. The letter, however, basically broke all the plans @Prymont and I made during your absence. I propose ignoring it (in the best case deleting the letter) and carrying on as if nothing of this ever happened. Basically, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.