awaiting rp Expansion: The Commonwealth

[Poland-Lithuania]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OAkD5Q7USqh4QLMxUBj5l4smnDJ7qp-N/view?usp=sharing

After looking at Ahrana's recent land acquisition, I have finalized my plans for new territory.

Currently claimed territory is in Yellow, and possibly new cities are in Red.

All territory outlined was occupied after numerous "barbarian" raids coming from the region, and all minorities in the area will be given full rights if/when annexation happens.

Check The Commonwealth Times for further detail.

[Gallambria]

Where's your RP for this acquisition? A 'note' in your news feed isn't sufficient.

Suggest you request this to be "reserved" and go back and roleplay the acquisition.

[Poland-Lithuania]

8 minutes ago, Gallambria said:

Where's your RP for this acquisition? A 'note' in your news feed isn't sufficient.

Suggest you request this to be "reserved" and go back and roleplay the acquisition.

Really?

Have you looked at the last five days worth of my news?

Day 1-

"Barbarian" raids occur

It is truly a sad day for the Commonwealth. Throughout the day, armed soldiers from the unaffiliated clans and kingdoms east of the country attacked and pillaged numerous small villages in the nation's borderlands. Various defense forces have been deployed to the settlements hardest hit, but in many areas they were too late. Over 600 people are thought to have died in the raids. The King has vowed for "revenge" against the so-called "barbarians", and he has given them "one day" to stop the pillaging before a "real" response from the Commonwealth starts.

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Day 2-

Borderland raids continue

Even though the King had given the groups to the East ample warning, 16 more towns have been pillaged today, and the defenses sent to the region have had to stretch thin. Hoping to try to calm the sudden surge of protests, consisting of both Ironfists and Loyalists alike, battalions of soldiers have been ordered to reinforce the border outposts in the East to protect against further raids. The Minister of Defense has stated that if the attacks continue for one more day, then troops will be sent in to "pacify" the "barbarian"-owned territories to prevent further damage from being done.

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Day 3-

Hostile lands invaded

Earlier today, after four more major attacks from the "barbarians", each causing major infrastructure damage and hundreds of deaths, the Minister of Defense ordered for the land directly east of the country to be occupied by the Commonwealth's military. Already, the allied soldiers have seen fierce resistance, however, they, unlike their enemy, have been able to avoid most unnecessary civilian deaths. According to information given to the Commonwealth Times by the central government, the army will continue to advance until all "barbarian" groups who caused the Commonwealth harm are neutralized. We will wait to see how long that takes.

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Day 4-

The troops press on

Throughout the day, as both border guards and allied civilians were injured and killed from continuous "barbarian" raids, the army has made significant progress in securing the hostile land outside of the country's borders. Already, numerous "barbarian" peasants have, under the safety given to them by the military, fled to the safety of the Commonwealth's cities. Additionally, several towns have fully sworn allegiance to both the King and the Chancellor. The military operation is expected to only have to last one more day, and government officials have begun to create plans for the complete annexation of the region involved.

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Day 5-

Annexation process begins

Earlier today, the central government announced that they had officially begun the process of both annexing and integrating the occupied, originally hostile, region into the Commonwealth. The formerly "barbarian" tribes will be able to use their native languages freely, and laws will be put into place protecting them from discrimination. The entire process is expected to take up to a week, maybe longer, but the acquisition, when finished, will surely give the Commonwealth more of a say in international politics.

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Poland-Lithuania (see edit history)

[Gallambria]

Your news feed isn't for role playing, its for keeping other nations up to date with whats going on in your nation.

Take a look at my RP for my recent acquisitions.

Although it is "short" by comparison to other expansion RP's it was supplemented by my news feed etc and it is still continuing.

Your "RP" is like - 'Barbarians did something naughty, they attack the border lands, the government send in military, king decides to annex their territory.'

You need a back story, some sort of dialogue between people within your government. Simply typing out a paragraph everyday isn't going to cut it.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Gallambria (see edit history)

[Poland-Lithuania]

Who ever said that the news feed isn't just for RPing?

Isn't "keeping people up to date with countrywide affairs" RPing?

Besides, what is honestly so bad about my land claim?

"Barbarians" attacked, killed hundreds of civilians, then the Commonwealth invades, and land gets annexed.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable justification to me.

Also, do you really expect everyone to write 2 pages of backstory, 5 paragraphs a day, along with every random conversation that ever occurs that has to deal with the topic at hand just to annex someplace?

I physically don't have the time to do that.

[Iverica]

I'm going to have to agree with @Gallambria, the issue isn't so much that you are expanding, its that your expansion is a bit too much, too fast, and may need some more details to flesh out in an RP. What I mean is an active RP dedicated to the expansion with a bit more focus on what is happening, why, and how your government will change to accommodate the new. I know you've already given some ideas on this, but if it could be fleshed out with a little more specificity in an RP, it would be much better.

Cheers

[Iverica]

If time is an issue, I suggest that you perhaps write a bit whenever you are free and post a complete thing when you can. Taking it a bit more steadily is not a bad thing either, in fact, it would add to the content and overall good of your RP.

 

[Variota]

I'm going to assume you're serious about annexing an area larger than you are now. I'm not saying that this isn't entirely possible but let me preface it by saying that it'd be extremely difficult. In essence, before you get that area under total control and are able to establish various services there, such as a police force you can trust, training army units with people from that area, etc., you're left extremely thin spread. And that's just on basic 'security to land' ratio, not to mention economic hits you'll have to take to get the area in shape, etc. So as it stands, that'll require a well-thought out and worked out roleplay or a well-thought out and large backstory placed somewhere that basically explains how you're able to do it without the entire nation crumbling down.

So, difficult but, if done right, in the realm of possibilities. Now let's look at what you've given us as proof. I'm with you on one thing, namely being that news articles can count for RP'ing expansion. I've used them once in my ongoing 'The hand that stabs you can also feed you' RP (that I should really continue but that's a whole other thing) as it was the best platform for me to create and show a bit of backstory. BUT news articles can never count for the whole thing. News articles always give us the perspective (atleast if you write them in, in my honest opinion, the proper way) of the newspaper, newspapers are never neutral and for things like war and what not, they never give you the whole story. A newspaper isn't going to say that a hungover private didn't check if the mortar range was empty, they're going to say that three soldiers were killed in a tragic incident.

However, and I'm going to use myself as an example (and trust me, I don't have the time daily to write two pages of text unless I happen to have a day off), additionally look at the size (some might say size equals quality, which I feel only counts if the larger article is also well-written) and detail you go into with your newsposts in regards to the expansion.

In total, you wrote 17 lines of text, 15 if I'm being pedantic. In my previously mentioned RP, the news article I wrote was 20 lines alone and that was on a small (but important) part of the backstory. But let's grab an entirely different news article, for example the one on my head of state downing shots in a nightclub and explaining TRIDENT on her reality TV show. A light, fluffy article that came down to 23 lines of text. Keep in mind, Het Waarre Raket fan het Noorten is meant to be a tabloid-style newspaper like The Sun. It doesn't overly go into details, I keep it light and yet I (and many more) manage to put in more work into one news article about much smaller things than you did in five about taking over a piece of land and additionally one that's the same size as you. I'm not saying people have to do large articles for regular news posts (sometimes you just have little inspiration but just enough for a small article, it happens) but in the case of an expansion and such, you really do need to put in the effort.

But let's further look at what's inside, maybe your posts have solid quality pounded into them and you somehow manage to make the entire expansion clear in a couple lines of text. I'm willing to admit defeat if so.

News article 1: Somehow, modern nations decide to say 'f*ck it' to diplomacy and what not and pour through your borders in a 'unified-by-common-enemy' show of force. They decide to murder and rape and pillage, for some unknown reason. The King gives them one day to retreat.

Yes, I know that there's more but this is basically the gist of it. Through some weird reason, you don't have a border force or even lightly armed customs officers or what not so they don't encounter resistance. The people living in those border villages don't own guns, even if there's no one to protect them from things like this, so 600 people end up dead because no one could do anything. The King, instead of being questioned for his iffy leadership or questioning the leadership of his ministers, gives the people killing and plundering your nation an ultimatum. In reality, anyone who wants to pillage is going to be lightly packed so why didn't the King just bomb the sh*t out of them? We don't know because there's literally nothing in the news post about how the decision was made. Was there fighting between the pillagers and the forces sent to the area? Who knows?

News article 2: Pillagers keep on pillaging, defense forces are spread thin but still cannot prevent losses. Additional forces are sent. King's ultimatum turns out to be worth sh*t, replaced by another ultimatum.

You give us absolutely nothing in regards to the fighting going on, losses by your troops, etc. For all we know, they could have joined in with the pillaging, they could have drunk tea with them, you name it.

News article 3: More attacks, major infrastructure damage and deaths. Army moves into unknown lands, soldiers encounter resistance but somehow still press on without securing the area, establishing FOB's and what not.

First off, let's start with the major infrastructure damage. Infrastructure being a large word, meaning anything from roads to electricity cables to internet cables to sewage pipes, let's say it was general damage all over the spectrum. That will slow down your forces moving through the area, make supplying them harder and generally be a pain in the ass. We don't see anything in that regard as your soldiers keep pressing on. You mentioned multiple kingdoms and tribes making up the 'barbarians', a kingdom (and I would assume tribes too) has a capital city. If you look at any siege or battles that happen in cities, you'll see that it takes time. Even if you have the most advanced stuff, the other guy with the rusted Varinco assault rifle and explosives made from extra strong fireworks knows the lay of the city, the lay of the buildings. You're not going to be pushing through that without either sustaining heavy losses by rushing, get harassed and what not constantly if you 'ignore' them or taking the time to clear each building, room by room basically. How are your soldiers getting their logistics? We don't know. Do you have temporary bases set up there? We don't know and with your time frame, I'd say no. So are your soldiers just sleeping in half-destroyed buildings? Setting up their tents wherever there's place? Maybe doing a bit of pillaging of their own in order to supplement their rations? We don't know.

News article 4: Finally we hear something about border guards and such, which are somehow still being raided by the same people you've just invaded. Army pushes on, nothing about losses or such. Military somehow gives safe passage to refugees, even if they haven't set up anything in the area. Towns swear allegiance even if there's no real reason for it, as you are basically the same for them as the barbarians were for you albeit with a somewhat justified reason, and you push on, taking over an area the same size of you in a mere four or five days.

What's the first thing the military and such of a nation is going to focus on? What's the first thing that a paramilitary group of a nation will focus on? Defence of said nation and it's territory. In fact, if you secure your territory well enough outside of the cities (as I wouldn't say Argis is like Afganistan or such and filled with cave complexes), you're going to get splinter groups at best that still continue the attack. We don't know if those continuing raiding are large groups, small groups, etc. There's no details given there.

But what it does tell me is that your army has put in no effort to secure the area and is basically just storming through it, which in reality is the only thing they can realistically do in the time they've spent there. You lack basic control of the area but still somehow manage to provide safe passage for refugees. The towns swearing allegiance is somewhat believable, if you provided a proper backstory to it. Why do they swear allegiance? Is the King just that handsome? Are you threatening to destroy the towns otherwise? Are they scared that if they don't, your soldiers will start pillaging them? We don't know. All we know is that you're doing an unrealistic blitzkrieg, without securing the area properly, without fulfilling the number one basic goal that you should have at that time namely 'ensure that the raids stop'.

News article 5: Incorporation of areas, people are still able to use languages. Sure guys, you killed hundreds if not thousands of us but now you're becoming our friends and part of the nation. And it'll only take a week, maybe two.

Let's leave behind all the lacking military stuff, glaring holes and what not. Do you know how long it will take to actually incorporate an area of this size entirely? It won't take a week, it won't take a month, it'll perhaps take a year if you're lucky. Between checking who you can use of the previous governments, ensuring that standards get up to the same level and variety, providing government forms in their languages, checking on the state treasuries that existed, getting the schools up and running and at a quality similar to the nation taking over, establishing government agencies and buildings in the new territories, laws that have to be made, commanders of hostile forces that have to be tried or executed and might still have cells and what not around, etc. Even if there's a dictator that can push through the laws and cut down on red tape, it'll take a lot of time.

---

A lack of time isn't a valid reason, a post doesn't have to be written in one go (these forums even save a copy of what you are typing every so often, aiding you even more when writing in multiple sessions). Roleplaying is a long haul, playing the long bet. Good quality roleplays can take months. And listen, I get it, if you look at the NS forums and such (atleast during the times when I still did that), there's loads of people doing their RP's in the quality that you did now. A couple of short posts and wham, bam, thank you ma'am, I'm twice my size or I've got nukes or you name it. I've had multiple nations throughout the years, I've ran small regions, I know that it's something that'll always be around (regretfully). But if you truly believe, even after reading all this, that you should get that expansion without putting a whole lot more effort in, I don't think this is the region for you.

If you are, however, convinced that 'yeah, I need to put the effort in and work on it, hard', I'd say this can be the region for you and we/you can get into loads of fun and what not during your future roleplays. And in that case, if you need help, feel free send me a message with questions, if you want to brainstorm, if you want another set of eyes to see how you could work an idea into a fun RP. But as it stands, you've put in an extremely low amount of effort and if that would result in you expanding, it'd not be fair to anyone including yourself. Take this opportunity to learn and improve your roleplaying and then come back for an expansion.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Variota
Minor spelling edits (see edit history)

[Poland-Lithuania]

King responds to international outrage

At noon today, after getting an actual pile of angry letters from other national leaders saying things like “Ignoring all of the damage that those barbarians caused, that obviously wasn’t a good reason to annex territory.”, “You took over a piece of land in 3-5 days with a two-million-strong military? Impossible.”, and “How dare you annex a land through your news, even though the whole point of an actual, real-life, newspaper is to report on national events, whether those events are military or domestic.”, of course, those weren't the actual messages, but they were, according to the central government, very similar...

Anyway, the King has, after talking with the Chancellor, gathered a list of responses to the pile of angry letters.

His responses have been gathered here, for all to see-

Q: How did you conquer the land so quickly?

A: "Do you really think, with a land force of 1-1.5 million, it would be very hard to conquer a large, somewhat underdeveloped, flat, region? Really?"

Q: Weren't supply lines stretched thin?

A: "Yes, but all Commonwealth soldiers carry at least two day's worth of, admittedly small, meals, along with a bottle of water with a filter. Ammunition was carried in on vehicles."

Q: Why were the villages surrendering to you so quickly?

A:  "When you hold someone at gunpoint, telling them about the much better standard of living in your country, they're most likely going to submit. Besides, as random as this country's day-to-day events can be, at least I got the Ironfists sorted out recently."

Q: Why didn't you report every single little thing that happened, including every military maneuver?

A: "Because honestly, that's somewhat unnecessary. Sure, if you would like, I could tell The Commonwealth Times to send some live cannon-fodder reporters into the war zone next time, but as of now, the area's essentially under a fragile Commonwealth military occupation until annexation starts. I can't go back in time and edit events that already happened. In the future, I promise that more in-depth coverage of military events will occur, and who knows, I might even release some war plans."

Q: Didn't your military conquer the area too easily, even for a million-men army?

A: "If a group of towns and villages are so underdeveloped that they aren't even on the international world map, do you really think that they stand much of a chance against the military of a developed nation with a supposedly "Frightening" economy?"

Q: Won't the annexing and integrating process take longer than a week or two?

A: "Actually, you do make a fair point. The actual process of annexing will only take that amount of time, however, after looking at the most recent estimations, along with surveying the amount of pre-existing infrastructure in the area, the integrating process could take up to six months. In the meantime, houses in pre-developed Commonwealth cities will be provided for the wave of refugees. Additionally, if it were up to me, the person who wrote that at the Times should get punished, but that's out of my control."

Q: What will happen if you don't keep these promises in the future?

A: "Then I can promise you that the articles will be re-written with up-to-date info, and, if it continues, I or the Chancellor might even resign."

Q: How do over 74 million people fit into such a small country?

A: "Come back to me once you've visited Bangladesh."

Q: Is that everything?

A: "For now, yes. I will be sure to answer any future questions, as long as they aren't covered by the above answers."

Check back tomorrow for more updates from the Commonwealth Times, your local, and absolutely only, news network.

Is everyone satisfied, or do I need to answer more questions?

[Prymont]

Firstly, OOC actions do not happen in game. You cannot reference things that happened OOC as the king of your country. Fleur de Lys and I have had a patchy history OOC, but IC we're nations that work well together. 

Secondly, the entire point of a news room is for updates. Write about political debates, funding allocations, new businesses, small stuff like that. It is not feasible nor fair to write five small paragraphs in your news room and call that adequate for an expansion. Go to 'International Incidents' and see any other post about expansion. You'll find well written, detailed Roleplay. And it's not a matter of time either - you don't need daily updates. Write it in your free time and release it at your leisure. Just make sure it's done well.

Finally, Bangladesh doesn't exist in Europa; neither does China, the USA, or anywhere else that exists in real life. We're a fictitious group with our own map.

[Poland-Lithuania]

21 minutes ago, Prymont said:

Firstly, OOC actions do not happen in game. You cannot reference things that happened OOC as the king of your country. Fleur de Lys and I have had a patchy history OOC, but IC we're nations that work well together. 

Secondly, the entire point of a news room is for updates. Write about political debates, funding allocations, new businesses, small stuff like that. It is not feasible nor fair to write five small paragraphs in your news room and call that adequate for an expansion. Go to 'International Incidents' and see any other post about expansion. You'll find well written, detailed Roleplay. And it's not a matter of time either - you don't need daily updates. Write it in your free time and release it at your leisure. Just make sure it's done well.

Finally, Bangladesh doesn't exist in Europa; neither does China, the USA, or anywhere else that exists in real life. We're a fictitious group with our own map.

First-Really? I answered a bunch of your questions about how I annexed the territory, and you go and say "Oh, I don't care about any of the content in this thing that took you almost 2 hours to write, I'm just going to nit-pick the parts that I don't like." DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THE OTHER 80% OF THE CONTENT, YOU KNOW, THE PART THAT (TRIES TO) ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS?

Second-I KNOW, I addressed that fact, and I will have a separate thread for military stuff in the future. I (normally) just like to use my 15-20 minutes of free-time each day to write a news blurb.

Third-I ALSO KNOW, I just wanted to address the probable question of overpopulation, incase it ever comes up.

[Gallambria]

 I don't think you understand what we're trying to say.

1. To address the obvious. You've pretty much broken the cardinal rule of rping by metagaming our conversation here into your rp.

2. You really need stop taking things as an offense against what you're trying to accomplish. We're not against the idea of your expansion, but there are a few issues that you need to address.

2.a The size of your claim - you've only been in the region for a few weeks yet you are asking for an expansion that effectively increases your nations area by 100% at least. I can tell you now, with out a doubt our master cartographer will probably reduce the size of it.

2.b I suggest you read this...

Growing your nation has to be earned. More rpactivity means you can end up with a bigger nation. We don't give away land to players who are inactive. If you want to apply for more land you can make a case for it in this topic. If the rp community and cartographer agrees, then your request can be negotiated and approved.

Your closest active neighbour must agree.

The cartographer must agree.

The rp community must agree (simple yes/no poll).

Shrinking a nation happens when it ceases to exist. Usually, you are granted some weeks to return. After a long absence, your nation will be reduced to the area around your capital. Your nation will be considered to be in crisis. An exception can be granted for nations with a considerable contribution to rp.

As tempting as it is to expand when your nation hits both the post and population parameters to do so, I must remind everyone that any and every expansion must be properly rp'ed for. This doesn't mean a one-post mention in your news thread, but a proper thread which goes through your acquisition of that land. Don't be afraid to be controversial or reluctant to stir up trouble ? in fact, this is often the best way, as it means that the much more fun can be had. Maybe you're taking over a plot that was originally another player-nation? you could rp the fact that that nation had recently fragmented and you're going in to "pacify" it. Or perhaps the plot you've got your sights set on has always been vacant. In this instance, there could be a minor regime with an opposite political ideology to your nation's, sponsoring terrorism within your borders. Time to invade and scrub out those commies/fascists-supporting terrorists! Just because your nation is expanding, it doesn't mean that every nation will automatically agree. In fact, the majority of wars in this region, whether minor or major, have originally been started over nations expanding. This is perfectly valid and, to a point, does reflect real-world tendencies, as some nations resent others moving into their spheres of influence. On a final note, I must add that when your nation does get big enough to expand into another plot, it doesn't mean you have to. If and when you do wish to take over another bit of land, be prepared to have a proper reason and story thought through to explain this expansion, as well as the fact that other nations may not accept it.

 

[Gallambria]

Also suggest you read through this...

 

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=178816

[Poland-Lithuania]

I've been active every single day that I've been in here, so the "more RP action" really shouldn't matter...

Anyway, about your 2.a thing-

23 minutes ago, Gallambria said:

2.a The size of your claim - you've only been in the region for a few weeks yet you are asking for an expansion that effectively increases your nations area by 100% at least. I can tell you now, with out a doubt our master cartographer will probably reduce the size of it.

Again, I've been active every single day of those 5 weeks that I've been here, or at least since I started the Commonwealth Times.

Second, I've just given you a set of statements explaining most of the how and why I occupied the land, which, in the way I answered it, doesn't effect my national politics AT ALL, considering it's just a bunch of letters and messages back, and now you're trying/threatening/saying that the land that I would like is going to be shrunk.

Now, again, tell me, what was the point of me writing that response for nearly 2 hours, if all you're going to do now is make up new excuses about how it's not going to work?

I wrote that for a proper response back, not just a bunch of (seemingly) whiny nit-picking from you.

[Prymont]

To be honest, I think you wasted your time. There was no major international backlash like you mentioned in the post, and it showed that instead of taking the constructive criticism provided, you chose to take insult to your writing, which wasn't the case at all. 

The reason why your expansion may be shrunk isn't because we're all spiteful pricks who hate you, it's because the person that runs this region usually tailors the expansion to reflect roleplay, activity, and a host of other things. Regardless of how frequently you've posted, you've still not been in the region for long enough to warrant an expansion that doubles your size, never mind not have roleplayed it sufficiently. @Variota provided some fantastic, in-depth advice above. I suggest you read it.

[Adaptus]

Can we just take a step back here. @Poland-Lithuania, @Prymont, @Variota, @Gallambria, @Iverica

I'm at work currently, so I can't spare the time for a lengthy reply. But lets put this into perspective. Just calling out those who have been involved, because I'd like the discussion to continue, but I want to pull this back a bit first. 

Firstly, can we address the concept of what is RP (roleplay) and what is OOC (Out of character). RP posts are those actually pertaining to the actually story line you are playing out. Out of character being discussion with other RPers around said RP and to flesh out planning, realism, etc, etc. Apologies if I sound patronising by going right back to basics, but I think it's just important to highlight that here. 

This is an OOC discussion. All map expansion posts should be OOC discussions, and should always start as such, with agreement for all neighbours before an expansion goes ahead. The purpose of the OOC discussion is to, as I said, flesh out the ideas and back planning. Expect constructive criticism, as that is the purpose, especially for those new to the scene. The point of this isn't to explain how something won't work, but how to best achieve what you want in a realistic way. 

I'm also going to have to step in with my Mod hat on too here: Can we please keep this civil. @Poland-Lithuania Can you go back to the start please. I appreciate you've outlined this a lot in your first post, but can we just wind it back. Can you summarise, intent, and purpose, and method, taking into account what's been discussed. Just a quick paragraph, and we can roll forward with a constructive process for you. 

[Poland-Lithuania]

Summarise the I, P, and M of the land that I would like?

Well, then...

Intent-To pacify the raiders entering the Commonwealth.

Purpose-Annexing the land that the raiders were in.

Method-Blitzkreiging through the undeveloped outer regions and holding down the occupied land with sections of the near million-strong land force.

The "How" is answered in the long post above.

[Adaptus]

@Poland-Lithuania Ok. So we have the brief. How do you think your neighbours would react to that situation? In character that is? That's a genuine question, no me being facetious or patronising. I genuinely would like to know how you think they may react.   

[Poland-Lithuania]

@Adaptus

Well, I privately asked Ahrana, the Eurofuher, and Greater Serbia, which are the three countries my borders would be touching if this ever goes through.

Ahrana said that "he doesn't care really", but I haven't gotten a response back from the other two.

As for In Character, then, looking at Ahrana's recent acquisition, and the fact that nobody, to my knowledge, wants a war right now, then, most likely, only words and possibly a tariff or two would be thrown my way.

[Poland-Lithuania]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15Ve18YZ-VSAwNrD68s6KmNEmZnP334XT/view?usp=sharing

Hoping to please more people, and get this over with quicker, I have reduced the size of the area that I wish to acquire.

Is this more reasonable?

Edited March 24, 2018 by Poland-Lithuania (see edit history)

[Prymont]

Nope. Still requires detailed roleplay outside of your news room.

[Andalla]

@Poland-Lithuania. I don't really have much of a say in this, but allow me to just put in my two cents.

It's not because we're generally against you expanding. It's just that there are some flaws, and we'd like you to fix it.

---

FIRST, you really haven't been active enough. By saying "active", we're not talking about how many days you've been online. We're talking about how much you have written; how much effort you've put into your writing.

To give you a picture, look at my expansion. I've been a part of Europa for half a year now, I've written some RP posts, I've co-authored the ATARA charter, and I've been constantly writing newsposts (definitely not often but I do put lots of effort into them, and make sure that they look nice) and updating my factbook on NS. And all for what? My entire expansion consists of just one island and its surrounding smaller islands.

Now look at yourself. You've been a part of Europa for a few months, you haven't really written any RP post except for one sentence on the CIS thread; and though you update your news thread regularly, on average it's just one paragraph without a picture. And then you want to double your territory?

---

SECOND, there are some flaws in the way you roleplayed the expansion. In fact, there's the first flaw; you didn't even roleplay it. It was just in a newspost.

Imagine how D-Day in WW2 would look like on a newspaper vs. a soldier's diary. The newspaper would simply say something like "Allied troops storm French coast, Germans facing high resistance on all sides". But if you read a soldier's diary, it would be full of stories and full of action. That's what we're trying to achieve. You need a story, not an summary.

Next, the whole metagaming issue. If you haven't understood yet: this thread is an OOC thread. That means that this is not part of the story in any way, we're just planning. But then, you put our comments here onto your newspost. And your newspost is an IC thread. Imagine, if I was chatting with Prymont on Discord, and I joked that I'd invade him. Would Prymont really go to the forum and tell everyone that Andalla invaded him? No. It's OOC, and it has no connection to the IC world.

Lastly, Bangladesh. I know this is a minor issue, but you'll need to fix that too. Remember that Europa has NO CONNECTION to real life! Everything here is a work of fiction. Bangladesh does not exist here. Maybe there are some things similar to real life, but they are not the actual thing. For example, if there were a character in Europa named "Donald Trump" then that doesn't mean that he was President of the USA or a businessman.

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THIRD, you're not accepting correction. Earlier in the thread you were getting frustrated at all the comments. But do remember that these are constructive comments, and they're meant to help you.

When people suggest something against your opinion, first take time to read and understand what they're trying to say. Don't immediately get angry, that's not the right way to behave.

If you don't understand, don't get angry right away. First, ask them to explain. It's OKAY if you don't understand.

If they don't understand you, then YOU explain. State the exact reasons why. But also remember, people will still sometimes comment and ask you to change something. And you shouldn't get mad, they are just trying to help.

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I know this might have been a bit too long. I am just trying to explain it thoroughly so you'd understand. I also don't know if anyone else has already explained it in this manner.

Just my two cents.

[Poland-Lithuania]

Thank you, @Andalla for giving me a concise statement that does not involve nit-picking or require me to read a novel's worth of text. 

[Ahrana]

When I first expanded to the east I wasn't informed a number of efficient posts must be made and a considerable amount of to contribution must be made. 

From what I have seen I do not feel as if either has been met. I took a stance of neutral on this at first beyond knew how it would go over with everyone. I had worked my butt off for my first expansion and I'm working my butt off in this newest one. I haven't seen any effort sadly. I am with everyone else here that says a contribution of efficient rp has not been made. I am sorry but I must object to it. If you get expansion then okay but the area will be in a bad state because it's too much land in a short amount of time and will be met with hostility.

[Adaptus]

Just going to add this link here for anyone who is interested. 

Although times have changed, and the way expansions are handled is very different today. In my head, I still think the rules laid out in this thread are solid guidelines to follow in terms of expanding. I appreciate we no longer have plots anymore, but you can still get the rough idea. It's what we all had to abide by in the past to expand. Just take it with a pinch of salt today.