map v4 Lockdown NW Europa

[Sunset Sea Islands]

Quote

Europa. As mentioned and discussed several times, especially on Discord and with @Vocenae  , I have continued with closing some of more lands that are still open in Europa. Out of respect for the old lore, this part of the map will slowly be locked down. 

1

So as @Orioni recently posted an update on locking down the old continent of Europa, there's one part of Europa that seems pretty easy to fill and I would like to discuss how to do that in the best or most interesting way. There are four major nations in this region which seem to be extremely powerful entities in Europa, @Suverina, @Adaptus , @Tagmatium Rules and @Great Burlington . They are mostly separated by no man's land.

The enlargements I propose would be good roleplay material for @Adaptus, which he could RP first before claiming peninsulas in the new world.

The new borders I propose for @Tagmatium Rules would make the nation geographically more cohesive and by having @Suverina dominate all of the Raga Sea would make it resemble the Roman Empire even more. Expanding @Great Burlington to the drawn line would also show appreciation for his RPs.

What do you guys and gals think?

The topography of the described area as it is now.

Cleaned up version of the map, current borders in red, no man's land in white.

Proposed enlargements, proposed borders in red, expansions indicated by arrows.

[Tagmatium Rules]

It seems like a good idea.

Three of those nations on that part of the map are no longer in Europa, two of them because they have ceased to exist. The third, Machina Haruspex left the region some time ago.

And, in the case of the Social Democratic Confederation, I believe we booted him from the region because he was a bit of a tosser. Although that was a long time ago and I can't quite remember.

I would go and look, but I'm finding it difficult to navigate around the new layout right now

Machina Haruspex has also left the region, and that was quite a while ago, too. Basically, those three nations can be taken off the map altogether.

I will admit that I've always had my eye on the plot that is proposed to go to @Adaptus but I will wait and see what he thinks about that.

It makes sense for things along the Raga Sea to be re-jigged, too. I would like to see more of a Tagmatine presence there, but that's because I hate those damned Suvvies so much. Again, I'd be more than happy to discuss things with @Suverina. Fundamentally, I don't really mind.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Sunset Sea Islands]

@Tagmatium Rules Good to hear that you're open to the idea. @Orionimentioned a while ago that the continent reminds him of a graveyard and I think that that aspect should be preserved, just like I view the leftover islands of Dobby is Free and Futanarien as graveyards, that's why I'm against removing nations from the continent. In my opinion it would honour their presence in the past to keep them on here.

Feel free to debate borders as you wish, I can post the clear files tomorrow once I'm out of bed, lol. I just tried to come up with the most logical and natural borders. However, if there were some ancient RPs that would make other borders better, just say so.

[Tagmatium Rules]

I'm kind of of the opposite opinion - that it is best to remove old nations, but then I'm not the one who is updating the map.

I don't really think that keeping Beautancus, Machina Haruspex or the Social Democratic Confederation adds much to that part of the map, especially if we're talking about adding territory to the nations that are active there. Although I wouldn't put myself in that category, considering that this is my third post in as many years.

If @Orioni, @Suverina, @Adaptus and @Great Burlington could chip in, that'd be great.

[Adaptus]

I didn't really want to have too much of an opinion on this since is saw Adaptus having quite a sizeable gain in land. However, How about this as a compromise. 

We remove those three dead nations. SDC can go to @Suverina. Which I don't think anyone will mind. MH can go to @Tagmatium Rules, I can take Beautancus. And in the spirit of fairness. The spare plot between myself and Tag can be split? I can take the western most areas, the part that sort bulges into my territory just to smooth things out. And Tag can have the majority of the plot?

Additionally, perhaps give Tag a touch more coastline in the Raga Sea?

I appreciate I haven't offered much to @Great Burlington, but that boarder seems quite natural, and I'm not sure his stance on any of this. Perhaps, an enclave in SDC could work?

Also, if we are to be removing some older nations, what is the stance on Van? If we want that to be a universal rule then, we would have to discuss what happens with Van too. 

EDIT: Attached slightly tweaked image for clarity. Very rough edit, so don't take it as gospel, just to illustrate what I mean. 

[Tagmatium Rules]

13 hours ago, Adaptus said:

I didn't really want to have too much of an opinion on this since is saw Adaptus having quite a sizeable gain in land. However, How about this as a compromise.

That's cool, although I'll wait on what @Suverina says.

And, of course, if other people disagree.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Sunset Sea Islands]

I'd like to hear @Orioni's stance on removing the old nations.

Just for future reference: I'm still against it.

[Adaptus]

I do think @Tagmatium Rules has a point about removing nations who have ceased to exist a long time ago, or were kicked. If the likely hood of their return is slim, then it makes sense. If they do return then they can always be placed elsewhere. Such a situation happened to me with Vetok, who took over my plots after my absence for so long. Which resulting in my move to the Occident. I found it a fair result of my absence. 

However in the case of nations with a long history, or who are still in NS, but don't participate, I think that is acceptable to keep them. I think, to make it work, we could say nations stay regardless of whether they have CTE'd etc. Until a nation wishes to move into their land, in which case, the old nation is altered or removed? 

Just an idea of course. Would be good to hear what @Orioni has to say. 

[Suverina]

I have had something similar in mind for my own nation for a long time. 

First of all, if you read my factbook you will know how I feel about sharing the Raga sea more than I currently do. Hard no. I really like Tag, swell guy, but for roleplay reasons I will violently oppose it. 

Second, I don't want Suverina to be too bulky, I want a more martime nation style that has stretched out across the shores of the Raga sea. 

My plan was to suggest a similar expansion of Suverina, which I intend to roleplay. I really want to do a historical roleplay (which people could join should the want to, but I can do it alone as well), which would span over a long period and entail both Suverina's expansion around the Raga sea as well as making expeditions to the new world. This would be a period where Suverina is a strong maritime trading nation,  inspired by IRL merchant republics (like Venice and Genoa) and the like. That and some modern day diplomatic roleplay is what I'm planning for my "comeback". 

And in while claiming less land in the old world I was hoping to carve out a small piece of the new world in the west for myself. 

edit: I would also roleplay the demise of Van. And about Burlington, I'd like us to one day have a small border. 

 

[Adaptus]

Taking Suv's input, I'm trying to work out a sensible compromise to this. 

I have tweaked this map again, this time taking out Van, and dividing the territory up between Tag and Suv, and, with some territory being free'd up. I've also tried to keep the boarders, somewhat natural (although I haven't compared it with the geographic map to check that), while still trying to keep them somewhat interesting. I tried to keep current boarders the same. It's rough, and some lines will need to be smoothed out. But it's an attempt at compromise. 

Let me know, what the verdict it. I'm trying to stay neutral to this, whilst please everyone. Not easy. 

[Suverina]

Adaptus' suggestion is great and indeed pleases me greatly. I have suggestions for finetuning the borders should we want to move on to that.  
 

[Sunset Sea Islands]

@Orionipls respond to that graveyard matter.

[Adaptus]

Well if all parties are happy. And the map gods don't mind doing the work. I suppose we can move the discussion forwards. @Suverina Said he had some suggestions on the boarders. Do you want to discuss this in a little more detail Suv?

I want to also suggest that maybe we move to create an OOC thread, to discuss jointly Roleplaying this. And how we want to go about it. Whether we want to link all the events together or not. 

How is that? @Suverina, @Tagmatium Rules, @Great Burlington, @Sunset Sea Islands, @Orioni?

 

[Orioni]

What I propose we do is:

1. Remaining open space is divided amongst the active players. I'd keep that river as a nice border between @Adaptus and @Tagmatium Rules
2. Inactive nations can be absorbed through RP. Both Beautancus and Machina Haruspex are in mountainous northern terrain. That'll make for a nice re-entry of Ad and Tag into RP.
3. As for SDC, I'm not sure to which nation he'd go. I'm ok with expanding @Great Burlington up to the neck of his peninsula. Then again, @Suverina would have to get over those mountains, which already make for such a nice frontier. Maybe a peaceful nature park could work as a compromise. I'm not sure. This is up to the locals to decide: GB, Suv, Tag and Adaptus.

 

[Adaptus]

@Orioni, I think if we can all agree to Role-play the expansions into former nations, I see no issues with us making creative solutions to these border issues. So long as it fosters a good series of Role-play. Hence my suggestion of us setting up an OOC thread to discuss the prospects of these expansions. After all, thats the fun of Role-Play. 

[Sunset Sea Islands]

@Adaptus umm... this is the newly set up OOC thread. Papa O moved the posts.

[Adaptus]

1 minute ago, Sunset Sea Islands said:

@Adaptus umm... this is the newly set up OOC thread. Papa O moved the posts.

Whoops. 

I blame old age. I miss things easily. 

[Orioni]

30 minutes ago, Sunset Sea Islands said:

Papa O moved the posts.

Yes, I've split off several topics from the main discussion. It was becoming too complicated to stay focussed on 3-4 different topics.

[Tagmatium Rules]

On 04/02/2018 at 2:24 PM, Sunset Sea Islands said:

@Adaptus umm... this is the newly set up OOC thread. Papa O moved the posts.

Gawd.

I thought that the "OOC" bit was a hyperlink and I was trying to click on it.

If @Adaptus is worried about his old age now, then he's got another thing coming in a couple of years

[Tagmatium Rules]

I'm having a bit of head-scratch as to how to go about the spread of the Greater Holy Empire.

My current general ideas are effectively a mix of old territorial claims - real or imagined - to places that were part of the "Aroman Empire" but were taken away by invasions of barbarian, kind of like the campaigns of Justinian the Great to restore the Roman Empire or the campaigns by various Byzantine Emperors against the Arabs or the First Bulgarian Empire.

The second idea could be the Greater Holy Empire playing upon its self-imposed role as guardian of Christians in Europa (and primarily members of Iconoclastic Orthodox Church) and come to the aid of various communities that are under threat, whether real or imagined.

As I was saying to @Adaptus on the chat, the latter has the potential to basically turn into some sort of generations-long war as other, non-Iconoclastic Orthodox people resist the spread of the only True Religion in Europa.