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[IDEA] Resource management


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[split from OPEC thread]

 

I'll see if I can make a workable calculation thing for the resource management (excl. oils and such) based on my idea. 1 point to Iron would translate into a much larger production amount (e.g. 10 millions tons annually) than 1 point in Precious Metals (e.g. just 100.000 tons annually), so that's where one gets the differentiation. I'd have to do some research in order to be able to produce reasonable figures.

This can be made very, very detailed, but that seems unwise. I'd say split it along the lines of Common Metals, Fossil Fuels (if we exclude Oil & Gas, this is mostly Coal), Precious Metals, Fissile Materials, Rare Earth Metals, Precious Stones.

Once again, I'll see if I can make something out of this.

Edited by Suverina (see edit history)
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Only the USA, Myanmar and Liberia (also known as the only colony the USA ever had) still use the Imperial System, so I guess it goes without saying that the metric system will be used.

 

As for the amounts mentioned: those were just random numbers, but just to give an indication. So there should be a fair balance between the different resources (for example the average percentage of metal in ore by weight) and just a fixed number to calculate it from. So if a score of 1 equates to a 100.000 tons of ore harvested, the actual amount of product would simply be said percentage of it.

Gold Ore (something I could find just now) is between 1.5 to 2 grams per tonne, so we're taking 0.000002% of this value to see their actual production of gold.

As I'd much rather just lump the precious metals together (platinum, gold, silver, copper, etc.), the percentage might be a tad higher or lower.

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But isn't the quality and density vastly different from various mining locations and different veins and such? Like the difference between gem-grade and industrial-grade diamonds.

 

Also, doesn't like the value (prices) of different minerals be taken into account? Otherwise (some) people would focus on whatever is most profitable. (I guess we'll have to rely on RL prices since creating our own supply and demand model would be impossible.)

 

 

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Like how there are various types of Crude Oil? Yes, there might be bigger differences between the various ore veins and the various types of oils. You're already generalizing there, so we can do so with oils as well. That's why taking averages might be best for gathering stuff, it will balance out with any (potential) price tag, as that too will be an average.

 

Sure, in RP folks might go for whatever is most beneficial, but that's quite easily solved by limiting the allocation within a reasonable framework. It's very unlikely a 100% of the mining industry is set around the collecting of precious metals. If your country can mine for those, it can also mine for common metals. It might be tempting to say "my nation produces all metals!" but it's more fun to say "I might produce plenty of gold, but it's those Rare Earth's I need!"

 

Quantity available also dictates its price, as a basic lesson in economy teaches us.

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*Clears throat*

 

I think you'll find we use both Metric and Imperial in the UK. We're very talented you see...

 

I'm quite impressed with all this quantifying. It makes sense, but I'm slightly worried in that quantifying these things detracts slightly from the RP element?

 

Apart from that I am fully behind this.

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@Jilderen: Look here for more inspiration from the region Realism and RP. They also go into detail about their resources.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/168B...t#gid=789028070 I hope we don't go overboard with this. I want to avoid discussions like: "You cannot have another airplane since your annual aluminium production is already maxed out" or "I have stollen all your copper and now you no longer have telephone lines." Too much detail may also scare away new members.

 

@Suverina: Different values? Oh please lets not involve the exchange rate that exists in NSEconomy. tongue.gifhttp://www.broomdces.com/nseconomy/regions.php?region=europa

 

@Adaptus: I'm in agreement with your point. "It makes sense, but I'm slightly worried in that quantifying these things detracts slightly from the RP element?" Lets use this to set some basic ground rules for realism, and then add our own individual marks. Somewhere between the two lies fun.

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Oh hell no! That's way, way to much detail if you ask me! I'm talking about general guidelines. Same as with the Oil production, just an idea of what your nation sort of produces and what its position is on the market. That Excel-sheet is just plain bonkers for a game like this, one that doesn't usually go in such extraordinary details.


From what I gathered in a quick internet based research thing is the following and along the general lines of my idea:

6 types of resources (Average grade percentage) (examples and grades)

- Coal (100%)

- Common Metals (26.27%) (Iron 55%, Aluminium 16%, Titanium 7.8%)

- Precious Metals (0.23%) (Copper 0.6%, Silver 0.09%, Gold 0.000005%)

- Rare Earth Metals (0.10%) (Neodymium 0.13%, others usually much lower)

- Fissile Metals (0.29%) (Uranium 0.15%, Thorium 0.43%)

- Gemstones (3.5%) (7% Corundum, 0.00000001% Diamonds)

 

So, let's say your nation produces 100.000 tonnes of Precious Metal Ore.

This would result in 100000*0.23%=230 tonnes of precious metal.

If using the standard division (only harvesting Gold, Silver & Copper), you'd get:

- 28.5 tonnes of Silver;

- 201.5 tonnes of Copper, and;

- 0.002 tonnes (yes, that's only 20kg) of Gold

Any other metals (platinum group mainly) could be included, but only a fraction of the actual gold production of these would be made.

 

So, yeah... Going into details here would quite quickly cause dozens of numbers to pop up.

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No exchange rates, when I meant value I meant RL USD.

 

100,000 tonnes of precious metal is worth:

 

Silver: 14,079,000$ (28.5 tonnes)

Gold: 794,960$ (20 kg)

Copper: 939,594$ (201.5 tonnes)

 

100,000 tonnes of coal is worth:

 

Coal: 9,520,000$ (100,000 tonnes)

 

Since precious metals is worth 50% more, wouldn't people be putting a lot of extra points on precious metals? We would never really use prices in roleplay, and a good RPer will model production after what they imagine their nations produces and not based on RL values. But if we don't take value of the different resources into consideration I think we will have to be very clear to players that when roleplaying, 100,000 tonnes of coal is worth as much as 230.02 tonnes of precious metal. And that RL prices don't apply and the prices in RP are abstract.

Edited by Suverina (see edit history)
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The 230 tonnes I mention is based on actually mining 100.000 tonnes of ore. So in sheer amounts, the same amount of rocks have been extracted from the earth. You need a serious amount of ore to produce even a tiny quantity of gold. So that's why the ore grade is important. It's equally hard/easy to dig out a slab or rock in an open pit mine if you work in a gold or iron mine, just the amount of actual metal you can get from that rock varies greatly.

One way to curb the abuse of allocating points is to 'enforce' a said pattern with limited room for personal adjustments. A bit like the plan is with the Oil production.

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Yes, I get that. But 100,000 tonnes of precious metal ore is worth roughly 50% more than 100,000 tonnes of coal.

 

The oil plan is a ceiling though, and meant to be lowered or removed based on how one RPs.

 

But if we just proclaim that 100,000 tonnes of coal is worth as much as 100,000 tonnes of precious metal ore (230.02 tonnes of actual metals), we wouldn't have to consider the difference in RL prices.

 

Edit: OR, we'd adjust the amount of finished stuff ore gives so that precious metal ore gives metal the same value as same amount of coal.

 

I don't care which, I just think it has to be taken into account so people don't think it's an abusable system.

Edited by Suverina (see edit history)
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@Jilderen: Look here for more inspiration from the region Realism and RP. They also go into detail about their resources.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/168B...t#gid=789028070 I hope we don't go overboard with this. I want to avoid discussions like: "You cannot have another airplane since your annual aluminium production is already maxed out" or "I have stollen all your copper and now you no longer have telephone lines." Too much detail may also scare away new members.

I think we'll have to be very careful about not getting carried away. Since we're inside of it it's easy to just keep on building what's around us, it's hard for us old guards to see what it looks like from outside. What we build might seem simple and logical to us, since we built it, but it may look like a weird and complex monstrosity to others.

 

To continue on my house analogy from another thread, if we keep adding new rooms and such to our house, we'll find our way around, but someone that's arrived fresh at our front door might enter and have no or little idea of how to find their way around the place.

 

I don't remember how it was to be new here, so I don't really have much of a clue how it is. One of the things I first wrote here in my introduction was "I wonder what can I do with my nation besides taking care of issues."

I assume there was a lot to take in back then before getting established. The whole buddy system is something we've talked about before but never got around to do. That's however an issue for another discussion. Byt yeah, we need to make new features and stuff easily accessible and understandable.

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@Magnaeus. The original input for the RP spreadsheet was calculated and managed by @Suverina. I'm sure he'll get around to it once he has more time. Meanwhile perhaps you can PM him a brief reminder, just to help keep track of things.

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