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[OOC] The Imperial Navy sets sail


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arrow.gifIC thread located here.

I thought the thread deserved an OOC discussion.

Jild, I made some assumptions in my IC post, as I imagined things. If you don't agree with something, tell me. I described as I figured things could be. Not getting really involved, but thought I'd take the opportunity to send some subs on a mission, which will benefit us both.

But this business of attacking nations, these are declarations of war. Have you thought this through? I mean, starting wars is a big thing. We're allied and all, I'm not fully comfortable with my ally starting wars all over. You are allowed to fight piracy on international waters, but attacking bases is declaring war. There'll be major consequences I assume unless most other nations have said they're fine with it.

I'm not sure how Suverina would handle that...

Guessing it also much depends on if you're attacking a former nation or some small place in an unclaimed plot/island. And depending on other circumstances as well.

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O, to be fully honest, I'm extremely sceptic to your claim about the MIDAS buoys not being detectable. They're stationary anomalies. Also, the fact they're emitting signals means they can be located through signal interception. I'm assuming such a system would be a "peace system", one that provides information during times of peace and will warn of potential threats, but I'd assume their positions are no secret and once war has been declared such stationary systems can be attacked, either electronically or physically. But it would still monitor everything prior to that, making it extremely useful, warning you of potential attacks. I'm also unsure how efficient they'd be at detecting stealth ships. You're claiming your system will detect any ship anywhere (within range) and that your detection technology is extremely compact and much more advanced than all other nations stealth technology. And that your own technology is undetectable.

I'd say you know where they (Jilds) are and can monitor them, they've out fighting, not sneaking. Hard to keep a secret. But I'd say all of us probably knows about your detection system, and have it mapped. To make a pun: We should've detected it long ago. We of course don't know for certain exactly how it works and how effective it is, but on the other hand you don't fully know what counter-measures and stealth technology Jilderen (or anyone else) is using.

I think it seems a bit close to godmodding to be honest. But that's why I'm bringing it up for an open discussion. Both realism and power balance seems a bit off.

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Seems wise to add an OOC one now that others are involved. First of all, the Battle Group consists of:

1 carrier (incl. jets and helicopters)

2 frigates (incl. helicopters)

2 corvettes

4 submarines

8 light ships (patrol craft)

Just FYI: The carrier, frigate and corvettes are new additions to the fleet, the subs and patrol crafts are 40-odd years old.

 

All these are actively scanning the area, pinging ships and all. They might have left Jilderen in silence, but there is no effort at all to stay hidden. Instilling fear in the pirates is part of the tactic. Won't take long for anything to get noticed really.

 

Also, as for the pirate coves: unclaimed plots. I might want to claim a tiny island there (from the unclaimed plots) in the end. Idea is to put up a corridor around a harbour, contact the government and request permission to assault. If the island turns out to host only some pirates and nothing else, that's when Jilderen might make a move.

 

@O: Your bouys are a bit of a power play. Those are easily detected by modern vessels.

@Suv: Very true that Jilderen has not informed your nation about its anti-pirate mission, but we know you know. Just not (yet) that your sub is around. Doubt it'll take forever before we can find it.

 

For the sattelites peeking down: you'll see some silly words spelled out by the sunloving sailors every now and then on the flight deck of the 3 main ships.

Edited by Jilderen (see edit history)
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Just to be clear: as an old island nation, one of the only in the east, I have RP'd myself into having a strong navy. When that military budget issue appears in NS, I always vote to have "battleships that look like islands". In turn, I have always accepted to have a weak air force. I think that would make for a fair balance.

 

@Jild: Alright, I agree with downplaying the technological advantage. Feel free to find one of the buoys and tear it apart. Perhaps you could board one of those pirate ships and find out they were abusing the MIDAS system for their own profit. It will prove me wrong and allow for further enhancements. Detecting one of those would mean replacing all of them, which would take ages. Also looking forward to your silly words in the sky.

 

@Suv: I see your buoy comment, and raise you one of your "extremely hard to detect" submarines. tongue.gif As the explanatory topic mentions, the program is peaceful: weather monitoring, tsunami warning, navigation assistance. That last part can be turned into a military advantage, but that hasn't happened yet since the 2006 introduction.

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Just to be clear: as an old island nation, one of the only in the east, I have RP'd myself into having a strong navy. When that military budget issue appears in NS, I always vote to have "battleships that look like islands". In turn, I have always accepted to have a weak air force. I think that would make for a fair balance.

 

@Jild: Alright, I agree with downplaying the technological advantage. Feel free to find one of the buoys and tear it apart. Perhaps you could board one of those pirate ships and find out they were abusing the MIDAS system for their own profit. It will prove me wrong and allow for further enhancements. Detecting one of those would mean replacing all of them, which would take ages. Also looking forward to your silly words in the sky.

 

@Suv: I see your buoy comment, and raise you one of your "extremely hard to detect" submarines. tongue.gif As the explanatory topic mentions, the program is peaceful: weather monitoring, tsunami warning, navigation assistance. That last part can be turned into a military advantage, but that hasn't happened yet since the 2006 introduction.

My portryal of submarine technology correspons fully what that of the technological development of submarines in real life. I wrote "A decade ago", because that was actually true in real life. A couple of years later submarine detection had caught up. The US Navy spent a whole year, 2006, trying to find a Swedish submarine in the pacific, but couldn't.

 

That's research and realism. It's literally taken straight out of real life.

 

And what does it matter what submarine technology was 10 years ago? That was just a background story. I based that part primarily around current day and the problem that manned submarines might actually be coming obsolete. Because submarine detection has improved so much, Suverina is eager to put their most modern submarines to test. (The fact that submarine operations might be becoming suicide missions in the future is a pressing matter. LADA being Jilderen's main foreign defence contractor, I'm assuming Jilds fleet has very modern equipment - some supplied from one of the foremost naval powers of the region.

 

Also, despite having one of the most powerful modern fleets in Europa I focused my roleplay around the difficulty of my submarines keeping up with sub detection abilities.

 

If it's alright with Jilderen I'd like my submarines to continue to sneak successfully for a little bit before he detects them. That means the most modern submarines of SUverina are still very hard to detect, but far from impossible. Had it been a combat situation, the closer the subs get the easier they are to detect, but they're keeping their distance as they wish to observe.

 

But just because I have one of the foremost fleets in Europa I don't go out and claim my subs are undetectable. As per my suggestion to Jild - on the contrary.

 

Also, the difficulty to detect submarines a decade ago was not merely limited to Suverin submarines, but to most equally modern subs. I write from a Suverin PoW, they analyze how hard their subarmines are to detect and how easy they can detect foreign subs. That's important to Suverina, not so much if Nation X can discover the sub of nation Y. But if we're talking about nation X's ability to discover Suverin subs, that's a more pressing issue.

 

I know you have one of the most powrful modern fleets in Europa, but so do I. As a coastal nation I have roleplayed the last decade focusing on being a naval power.

 

But despite you and I being among the foremost naval powers in Europa, that doesn't mean we can have god mode technology. Sure, we have a definitive edge, but there has to be some balance. We develop technology to find them, but they develop technology to stop us from finding them. That's how it works. Having an edge means we find them a bit more often then they can evade us, but that doesn't mean we'll manage to find them all the time.

 

I'm glad you agreed to downplay the technological advantage. I believe those buoys would be easy to track and map, both by noticing stationary anomalies on/close to the surface, thermal detection and signal interception.

 

However, your buoys aren't illegal in any way. It would be a provocation if Jilderen messed with them on purpose. I doubt he would actually disable one through the use of force, through electronic warfare he could possibly interfere with their signals, which would be somewhat harder to trace. I'm assuming more nations have similar detection systems that are used both for research/science and military/security. The main difference being the extension of yours, and probably given it was jointly developed by the entire EOS, it would be slightly more sophisticated than an individual nations system, I'd give you that definitely.

 

Freeform RP is freefrom RP, it's not improv. What one player claims isn't true unless we agree. I could counter your claims by saying I've been intercepting the EOS buoys transmissions and have been gathering most of the info they've been sending for years. But we don't want that. It's not about winning and being the best, we have to find balance so that we all can enjoy ourselves on somewhat equal terms. We all want to live in harmony and cooperation, I assume.

Edited by Suverina (see edit history)
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@Suv: You've got time. Just know that the sonars are all active and looking for anything that moves. So, if you get to close, you'll be found.

 

As for the state of my armies: they are in the middle of a massive overhaul, partially thanks to the joint efforts with Suverina. It's the first true renewal in 40 years. So, you'll see those high tech corvettes, frigates and carriers sailing alongside some rusty ships. The subs are rather old school as well, though new ones from the LADA joint venture are being introduced in the near future.

Jilderen's focus with its army is on rapid response. The current ships might be high tech, their numbers are - for a nation that size - relatively low. Well, besides the fact that going to any form of post-primary school is done in government owned schools and include some level of military training...

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Suv thinking out loud:

 

Woah, checking out and tampering with an EOS buoy? The EOS won't like that I'm assuming. I'd assume they'd be fully aware who's been tampering with it. Suverina won't condone this should we this officially come to our attention, but we're hoping you'll share any useful info you might find with us in confidence.

 

I'm curious to see how the EOS will react. Seems as it could great tentions at the summit. Exciting!

 

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I have been tinkering with an idea about asking O if I might be allowed to start a sub-plot where my somewhat shady military intelligence agency would recruit pirates from one of the former nations to snatch, disable and research one of the buoys. Such an attempt would allow Suverina to hopefully gather info through a third party. The fact that pirates from some nation, I was thinking Damak Var, had stolen a buoy would increase the Orionii awareness on that pirating is becoming a bigger and bigger problem, and more a direct threat to national security of EOS nations.

I only thought a little bit about it, am thinking of discussing it with O and I guess other EOS members that would care. I'm thinking if such a sub-plot happens, the buoy is snatched, disabled and taken to Damak Var. So far so good, but then it would be up to O (and other EOS members that are active) to decide how much or little information I'd be able to get out of it.

 

Just an idea I've been toying with for a couple of days. thought I'd might as well think out loud now what tampering with EOS buoys.

 

Might be fun to escalate things in the Orient a little bit?

 

This whole drug trafficking, illegal arms trade, terrorists, pirating, rogue nations: Like I said before I'm pondering a multi-pronged approach. My military intelligence agency is shady, and works mostly in accordance with the ineterests of the military and ministry of defence, they think the interests of the nation and the government as a whole are secondary. Also, since the military is one of the most powerful "factions" in Suverina they believe that their interests are often what's best for the nation no matter if the government says otherwise. I want to (continue to) RP the conflict between the national security agency that's more government loyal and the military security agency. Also, I'd like to dive further into the shadiness and unorthodox methods of the MIA. While they agree on a lot of the problems currently going on in the region, they also see some opportunities to use it to their advantage.

All this, which will hopefully make several neat sublots that weave into a mainplot and perhaps cause quite a bit of internal conflict in Suverina.

 

The buoys and the whole pirate thing inspired me to think about ways for Suverina to be a bit involved in the South East.

 

Like I said, I'm just thinking out loud and also strayed a little bit off-topic (even though it's related).

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And @Jild, what carrier are you using? You purchased 2 (at leaat) top modern Michail II-class carriers from me. Are you using one of those? If you are, or might be willing to consider (as you haven't used any carrier pics yet), I'd think it would be neat if it was mentioned and you could use a picture. The carrier is based on the Queen Liz II carrier.

 

yes.gif

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The Battle Group active in the Konstantinopoli Sea is a 'stealth group', not one of the bigger strike forces. These ships are selected for speed and ability to strike quickly. The carrier in use in this storyline is the much smaller Marquis-class (see here), accompanied by two Shah-class frigates. It's their first time outside any simulated combat environment. The (for now) two Michail II-class CV's are part of the main fleet. One of them *might* be a lot closer to your waters, just in case something happens there.

 

---

 

Tampering with the buoy is not something the EOS might like, but they shouldn't leave things just floating out there. I'm (purposefully) not writing up if the hacking attempt succeeded or not. That's something the other party (read: Orioni) may determine.

 

I've been tempted to add some drugs into my story line already, but I'm keeping it out for good reason. To obvious tying together these ideas is a bit much. Maybe, if I ever take up a small bit of land (or a while island) in the K-sea I'll encounter more of a drug trafficking network. Currently the main effort is putting a firm stop to the pirate activity there. How exactly the pirates are going to be put to trial I don't know yet... Jilderen doesn't want to get them on their soil, that's for sure.

 

So, yeah... Things are moving on ;-)

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 year later...

Witnessing the extended absence of Jilderen, I will be co-opting this topic and expanding the scope from the Konstantinopoli Sea towards the eastern parts of the Nothern Meteorolas. This brings it closer to home, while continuing the story premise, making it easier for me to become directly involved.

 

user posted image

 

The storyline I will be following:

  1. pirates moving eastward and inland
  2. terrorising residents of Bainbridge Islands
  3. boat refugees from Bainbridge Islands
  4. a problem for Orioni
  5. intervention for "humanitarian" reasons

This is largely how I see this story developed over the next couple of months. You are welcome to jump in, either directly or by commenting via a news story. Perhaps some of you won't agree with this interventionism.

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  • 2 months later...

I am adding some plot twists. The point-of-view from Orioni government and navy side was boring me a bit. So I will now be going for the story of the captives and pirates. http://www.europans.com/?showtopic=4092&p=40003976

If someone else is interested in playing along, I can introduce a fellow-captive. We can work something out. Or maybe another ship is captured and the captives are grouped together.

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  • 5 weeks later...
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