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Real-world corresponding nations/continents

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Take into account this version of the map and its nations. http://www.europans.com/index.php?showtopic=2374&p=22036456

I've been breaking my head with this challenge. If we can figure out some sort of similarity, it could help fill in some of the blanks.

  • Tagmatium and Suverina in the northwest seem to share a similar orthodox history.
  • Vocenae and Vetok in the north I'm not sure. Definitely western nation. Anything from Anglo-saxon, American, Germanic to Slavic. We used to have Akiiryu in this area, playing a nomadic nation.
  • Ide Jima in the east is a clear asian-style nation.
  • Miiros the east could be an asian tiger, but I leave that up to him.
  • Orioni in the east would be a mix of japanese and indian.
  • Island nation in the south-east have always been styled as polynesian (Bainbridge Islands) or australian (Niederoestereich).
  • Emakera in the middle is RP'ed like a latin-american country. I'm unsure how this would have developed with no Columbus.
  • Going further to the south-west we end up in the middle east. Mahdah used to be here. Haken had a similar story.
  • The very south-west, where it's warmest on our climate map, would represent Africa.

Any help in brainstorming this will be appreciated.

Edit: To recap my above thoughts, I think I'm asking mainly ethnographical questions.

  • North-west, north, north-east = western nations (latin, germanic, anglo-saxon, slavic). Where is our Rome or Athens?
  • East, south-east = Asia (from russian and mongolian to chinese and indian). Where would our Genghis Khan have come from?
  • Central, south = Middle East (egyptian, arabian, persian). What would have been the empire of our Alexander the Great?
  • South-west = Africa. Where is our Rift Valley?
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  • 10 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I've been kind of rebuilding my nations history a little in my head, especially since I've asked for my nations to be moved.


I was trying to pin down a realistic Roman Empire for the region. Since me and Tag share a similar culture. And since I opted to move my nation to boarder him I had the idea of created the two of our nations as the Eastern and Western Roman Empires, of course expanded greatly.


Which would firmly put a lot of the north west as a Latin derived culture group. And then spreading out from there. So for example the area where EE is places would seem like North African. While the area east of there, where Red Iberic Workers was located would be somewhat Indian. Directly north where Akiiryu is spreading north east from there would be Step cultures from Russian, to Mongolian.


That was my kind of idea. Of course nations don't have to stick to this strictly but it's just a rough idea.


I've attached am incredibly rough idea of what I had for the Eastern (Purple) and Western (Red) Roman Empires. Obviously for the Roman Empire at it's full extent it would be both halves joined together.


Of course this may not be to everyone tastes. But an idea. I'd also stress this would be Rome. And not Tag or Adaptus. But a separate entity. For the sake of filling our history and backstory.


As for Rome itself. I had the idea that Rome as a city may be lost. Sacked and raised to the ground by barbarians, and forgotten. Much like the city of Troy is today. The remnants would Constantinople (Tag's capital) and Athens (My capital) and maybe things like Alexandria perhaps Suv's capital?


Something I was thinking about, would give a basis for cultural groups spread out from there.


user posted image

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I would've found it polite if my opinion specifically was sought after regarding the history of my nation...


Eastern and Western Rome was a natural dividation geographically. Your map suggestion more looks like some sort of Molotov-Ribbentrop pact situation where two nations conquered and divided between them. If the Roman empire would control the entire Occident why would it divide the administration in two?


Seems more logical - should administration be divided - that it'd be made in four parts. (At least, remember, the map if freaking huge! Suverina alone is home to 16 billion people, which means it has to be somewhere between 5 and 15 times the size of real life China. Could an ancient empire actually administrate such a huge territory? That means the Occident alone is probably bigger than all land mass on Earth!)


Also, since you're the new kid on the block (the Occident), I should have some sort of seniority, how come you get to be the remnant of Western "Rome" and not me? (I'm just curious.)


Also, I'm moderately against writing history for others and forcing future nations to share a common history with us. If you want to share a common history with me or Tag, that's fine, because you can ask us and coordinate with us, and we're able to accept or refuse any proposition.

Do notice I used the word 'moderately'.


I don't know where you've requested your nation to be moved, but I'd suggest all such requests be made in the map request thread, it makes it so much easier for the rest of us to keep track of what's happening.

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Alright, let's talk this over in a constructive fashion. Nothing has been decided yet. This thread is all about seeking input and mutual advantages. There's no need for swearing.

Pointing out how huge the map probably is was meant as constructive discussion input regarding an inquiry to if it's even historically plausible.


Not that I believe anyone would take offense, but I've edited the post.

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Sorry Suv.


That wasn't my intention. It was purely food for thought based on what O had said. Since I was asked for input.


It's not definitive, and purely for the purpose of getting people talking. Since I've got a lot of free time on my hands right now I added a map to illustrate the point. It wasn't made to wipe out peoples history. More as a general talking point.


Again sorry.


I did try and keep the map based on natural barriers for the split. Rivers, seas, and mountains. But I wasn't sure on a scale people would agree on so it was very ball-park-esque.


It does highlight the difficulty in defining regional history, when so many histories and individual story lines intersect.


Another alternative would be to create something unique to Europa? Rather than base it on real culture groups and shared history, we could have something completely unique.

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I do like the idea of common history, it adds a whole lot more flavour than everyone making individual ones. And I have previously pondered the subject, wanting to explore what possible previous ties Suverina has with Tagmatium. Adding multipile nations to possible common history is naturally very interesting.


If I counted correctly the peninsular Occident mainland has 26 plots. Currently I have three, but would like a fourth one. (I'd actually like to take two plots and divide them equally between me and Tag. Plots 165 and 181 to be exact. But that's a matter pending revised map rules.) Tag has six, and I'm assuming you (Apatus) will have 5 or 6. Realistically I guess we can expect that one more nation could settle in the Occident, but I do feel a bit uneasy about coercing that future nation into our common history.

Take into account the plots you included outside the peninsular occident, there'd be a lot more possible future nations involved.


What I'm also worried about is creating a precedence. If we take a large chunk of land and write the history of that territory others might want to do the same for other parts of Europa. Which, like I mentioned, could end up coercing historical timelines upon other nations.


I peronally would find roleplaying easier if populations were divided by 100 so that our nations would be more like real life nations in terms of population and geographical size. (Also things like army numbers and such would be easier, my army has like 50.000 divisions upon being mobilized.)


But as long as we stick with our NS populations for RP the map would be corresponding in size.


(I'm making a second post discussing the divide of the peninsula.)







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I did these in paint so it's very sh*tty, and the last one is terribly messy.


I don't really know that much of these things, but this is how I imagine things. My thoughts are that mountains are far less habitable and much harder to control and administrate. So big empires would have a hard time controlling and administrating the massive mountaineous areas.


Prime locations for civilisation

user posted image

To me, these areas look like prime areas for developing advanced civilizations, they consist of low arable lands with lots of coastline. But that's like going way back.


Potential empires

user posted image

Here I toyed around with what empires (I imagined) could form on the peninsula.


Blue nation: Lots of arable land and plenty of coastline

Grey nation: This is either a part of Blue or an independent nation, perhaps tributary/vassal of/to Blue.

Red nation: This is a seaborn maritime trade empire located along a long stretch of coastline.

Green nation: Lots of coast and arable land. Seems like the prime location for developing an empire. (But advantageous geography isn't all that's required)

Yellow nation: Trade/martitime nation situated at the edge of the Raga sea and controls trade of that sea.

Purple nation: This could either be a part of Blue or Yellow. Or be independent.


Natural borders

user posted image

This is how I see a natural divide as a result of conquering would look like. All the mountains create a natural barrier between the two nations.


Would one nation, like Rome, control the entire peninsula, I don't see why they'd divide administration in two. Seems more logical with a Northern, Western, Southern and Eastern Rome instead. A four-way split. Should administration be divided at all.


Also, we could just have one Rome that eventually split into our three nations.


But I'm open to discussing all sorts of possibilities.

Edited by orioni (see edit history)
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As for my move, I've taken 4 land plots and the small island to the west. So long as there are no objections. I felt bad taking back my old land from Vetok since I was inactive for so long. I've tried to dump myself in as neutral a spot as possible. Without interfering to much with surrounding nations.


Back to topic.


I think having some form of common histories is a good thing, and it gives us something to advertise as a region. For example, collaborative writing on our history could encourage more people to come, seeing as we take the time and effort to come to these sorts of story driven consensuses.


However the point raised by Suv that doing so without inhibiting new nations from taking part due to them perceiving it as having their history already written for them is a very real hindrance. The last thing we want is to have new nations feel they have to have a set history forced onto them.


So the challenge is creating a common history, and culture groups without inhibiting new additions. I think this may be why we should take a slightly different approach. Maybe devising our own unique history and cultures maybe more convenient.


Perhaps we could formulate some rules as to how to broach such histories? Which could help not only create a common story, but maybe give new nations room to play with? For example; "National histories must be contained to your current plot and any adjacent and vacant plot".


Again food for thought?


In terms of the RP populations. I always took it as either the 10% rule as a maximum for populations when it came to actual roleplay. With certain trade offs. For example; large armies have cheaper equipment, small armies have more expensive equipment, large armies take longer to mobilise, smaller armies can deploy quicker, and obviously everything in-between, so on and so forth.

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About Rome: the city was founded on the Tiber river. It grew from there by conquering surrounding tribes. While expanding, it clashed with and conquered neighbouring empires: Carthage (Africa), Greece (Hellenistic, Egypt (Greek-Arab), Parthia (Persia). Have a look around for some matchy-matchy. Additionally: acoording to my it was Aeneas of Troy who fled to Troy. Where is our Troy? Where is Cairo? Where is Babylon? Also: I've noticed that neither of you play a particular Italian style. Perhaps you were not at the core? Just asking.


For Europa, some cultural groups could be placed. None of these are to be underestimated. Pick a place and work from there.

- latin

- celtic

- slavic

- germanic

- nordic

- arabic

- asian

From what I could find on the forums, this is what we would end up with.

user posted imagehttps://imgur.com/OtWVU5B (cultures)

user posted imagehttp://imgur.com/dD1jdP9 (political systems)



As for the southwest: I have always imagined that The Europa Empire is the source of all our civilisation. Would that be pseudo-Egyptian or Mesopotamian? I don't know. This can always be improvised. There's doesn't have to be continuity. Perhaps it's even easier to say that this origin story was lost.



As for the northwest: there is a huge shallow land off the westcoast, reaching towards that island. Sunken land. Also faint outlines of a river in what's now the Gulf of Gaius.



As for rewriting history, I don't think there's too much danger of this happing right now. Activity is restarting, so right now there is no conflict. No one else occupies the northwest. Seeing as you are both mentioning Tagmatium and Roman heritage, why not let him join the discussion?

Edited by orioni (see edit history)
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I think my point is. Do we need to have corresponding histories to the real world? Or would it be more convenient to create our own mini stories. In a similar vain to their real world counterparts. But more unique to our region?


Alternatively we could go with O's idea of lost civilizations?


I have to admit I'm finding it difficult to place things in my head, with NS being so varied and unique in terms of player base.

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Just to note: Jilderen is no longer lost ;-)


Also: the whole point of a thing like this is that one can have the option to create ones own history and everything related to that. Still, it's nice to back it up with something that's vaguely realistic.


As for the cultural groups: I am missing some cultural groups. Given the fact that my nation's ruler is black (or brown, or whatever the kids call it these days) a bit of African heritage somehwere might be usefull. Still, nation-wide speaking, it's a darn mess of everything.

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Given the fact that my nation's ruler is black (or brown, or whatever the kids call it these days) a bit of African heritage somehwere might be usefull.

On the contrary. Personally, I considered your corner to be Africa, with neighbouring Arabia to the east, and Asia even further eastward. This could actually work really well.


I'm not sure if you guys agree on this, but I consider EE's nation The Europa Empire to be the cradle of our civilisation. If we can make his location of combination of Rift Valley, Egypt or Mesopotamia that would fit neathly in a shared prehistory.

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Well, on the Cultures map it states Celtic, hence the comment. Feel free to put me in the tripple-A corner (Arab/Asian/African), nothing a crazy colonial history won't explain for the presence of white folk.


A cradle of civilization seems like a neat idea. Nations can ignore it, of course, but it is a nice idea to build some common history. Civilisations far away (like mine) could claim their own cradle, like the mesoamerican thing. I'm in favour!

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A cradle of civilization seems like a neat idea. Nations can ignore it, of course, but it is a nice idea to build some common history. Civilisations far away (like mine) could claim their own cradle, like the mesoamerican thing. I'm in favour!

IRL it somewhere in East-Africa. Not a peaceful, leading place if you ask me. Just look at Somalia. To me there doesn't have to be a truly cultural connection. Just a point of origin, in the far far past.

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