Any interest in a historical RP?

[Beautancus]

Trying to get back into the swing of the RP'ing thing now that I've regularized myself with the new job and all, but I've had an idea/wish going for a while that I think would be especially fun with the rather intelligent crew we've got here...how about a historical RP? I'd love to do something around the time of the Thirty Years War, but would be fine with going back to around the start of the Hundred Years War between Britain and France (technologically). Any interest, or do I need to just content myself with Shadows of the Past alone? (And yes MH, I haven't forgotten about ya.) I rather prefer not to delve much beyond the 1640's technologically, and now that I think of it, I would actually prefer to do something more solidly in the late 1400-mid 1500's. Something slightly before gunpowder weaponry became *too* common and relatively accurate. Again, any interest?

[Vocenae]

Well we had that WW2 rp awhile back but it got crazy complex to the point where I didn't even bother keeping up with it.

[Haruspex]

I'm down for anything really. I dont want to over extend myself though, but with Jethnea dying the slow death RP wise, and new duties at Novus Orsa as the RP Mod, I think I can manage.

[Tagmatium Rules]

Yeah, I'm up for it.

 

I've been itching to break out the cavalry again for a while, although the last time I did it was to break a seige during the Europan version of WWII Crazy stuff.

[Beautancus]

So how does about 1450 (just a few years prior to the fall of Constantinople to the Osmanli Turks) sound for the actual date? Something earlier would be cool, but you could play around with Hussars and early Gendarme-type Kataphraktoi for this time setting if you'd want Tag- so you'd more than have your cavalry fix. Either way, I'm up and ready to go...I actually might let the native Cussian religion slip for this one, and just go with Zoroastrianism or (Sufi) Islam for this story- give it some real 1450's flair y'know? Any ideas on where you'd like to start, or should we go with the border conflict/client kingdom tug-of-war that we discussed way back Tag? Anyone else have ideas? As I said I'm up for anything, but I do have some ideas myself if nobody else does.

[Haruspex]

I'll probably the route of a mongolian-tartars or something aspect. Not sure. A flair for sea raiding would be interesting to.

[Beautancus]

I'll for sure be going the route of something Persian/Turkic with an emphasis on the mid Ottoman era with Qizilbash Sufi-warriors thrown in for a bit of spice. This'll be well past the era of the Ottoman Sultan gettin taken captive though, so no danger of that. heh

Edited January 15, 2008 by Beautancus (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

You do kind of have to factor in the fact that Europa has nothing to do with the "real world", as it were. Tagmatium isn't just bastardised Byzantine Empire, with its Orthodox Christianity, but Zoroastrianism as well as (vague) Paganism. In the 1400s, the Tagmatine empire had been on a downward slope for at least a hundred years, but it is still hanging on in the eastern provinces of the "modern" Greater Holy Empire. Tagmatium was destoryed in the 1300s by Akiiryan tribes.

[Haruspex]

Haruspex was on a rise, it's Aztec-Mongolian theme was near the hieight of it's power it would have later on down the road of history. I imagine that the heathen barbarians of it's land would be steeped in mythology and human sacrifices.

 

Family fun for all.

[Deltannia]

Always up for this. I guess I'd probably play both a science and religion aspect here, as well as a light military one. Perhaps naval exploration?

 

Actually, I wouldn't mind gunpowder, as long as people treat it like the superweapons of the time (i.e., no godmodding it).

[Vocenae]

Vocenae would be a vast landscape of clans raiding and pillaging the coasts of Deltannia and Adaptus.

 

I doubt if I'll get in on this but just an FYI in case you need to reference me or whatever.

[Haruspex]

Where Haruspex is now would probably mean raiding and or some such against Tagmatium or perhaps as a horde, attempting to sweep in and so forth. Similiar to what happened to Rome or some such. Not to mention I'd love to do viking-esque raids across the sea for slaves and what not.

 

:cackle:

[Deltannia]

raiding and pillaging the coasts of Deltannia

You think so, do you?

 

Actually, that might make for some good battles....

[Beautancus]

Yeah FACGrey the gunpowder weapons that would *really* matter would be the hulking thirty foot + monstosities (along with the smaller "regular" sized bombards) like the Ottomans used to pound down the walls of Constantinople- weapons that could only be fired like three times a day, and even though had the high probability of exploding and wiping out the gun-crew, who were themselves rather hard to replace. Greek fire might be something interesting to toy with on a limited basis at sea, and Naffatun-type units hurling burning naptha might be something to play around with for infantry- but again, only if not god-modded. The Harquebus is still pretty inaccurate at this point, and pound for pound the long-bow, or some well developed crossbows would be better (longer-ranged [in the case of the long-bow, and maybe some recurve bows], more accurate, and more effective against plate-mail) than guns- period. Trade might (should) be an interesting aspect to play into things as well, this being the infancy years of modern and truly international banking. I'd even ammend that portion of Cussian culture/history, just to see what it would be like...

Edited January 15, 2008 by Beautancus (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

The bows of the east were much better than the longbow. The longbow itself was kind of on the way out, as by the late 1400s it was having a difficult time going through the plate-mail of the later medieval knight, although it was used in massive barrages before battles (or at least it was in the Wars of the Roses... I'm not too familiar with what was going on on the Continent at this period). Plus, as longbows almost couldn't be used from horseback, they were much more widespread amongst those who used horses more. I imagine, at least on the Occident, fast cavalry is the main thing in use in this period of history. Tagmatium was using them a lot, and I would imagine the Haru too, judging from MH's description of an Aztec/Mongolian culture. Crossbows were better than longbows for negating plate-mail, but then ridiculously slow to reload. You could probably charge with cavalry and cut down a crossbow unit before they could reload, but then that'd be massively gambling. You also get pike tactics popping up in this sort of period.

 

The Greek Fire thing... It was used a lot by the Byzantines, both on land and on sea. I'm going for the use of it in infantry regiments, with those who use the fire-throwers as a sort of pioneer/combat engineer role, although that might be more for later use in my nation's history. Plus, the exact make-up of Greek Fire was a state-secret of the Byzantine Empire, so not sure how wide-spread it would be in Europa.

 

On the gunpowder front - I imagine it would be fairly common in the 1400s, since there were cannon at Crecy and Agincourt, and several battles of the Wars of the Roses were kicked off by a cannonade, although very rudimentary ones. The guns were prone to blowing up. I do like the guns they had on the ends of sticks, not sure what they're properly called, though.

[Beautancus]

Yeah, I've pretty much surmised by this point that the Occident would be a pretty cavalry oriented region- I'll probably be going with some sort of recurve bow for mounted archers, but I'll have to do a bit more research before I go with that. I was actually thinking of a sort of pike and shot formation for my infantry, most likely with a variation on an early firearm mixed in with bill armed infantry- or some polearm variant. Pavise Crossbowmen interspersed with some sort of pike, maybe a variant on a landknecht or billman type unit would work, particularly with defensive spikes thrown-up/dug-in to slow down cavalry charges.

 

And I think the gun you're thinking of is this Tag: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon

 

Most of my units will be coming straight from the Ottoman and Persian army lists from the period, Persian including Timurid and Ilkhanate also- but far heavier towards the Ottoman side of things. For sure have some sort of medium to heavy lancer units charging around.

 

*edit* And I have no plans to use Greek fire in pump form, more in the way of very, very dangerous hand-projectiles, sorta like in Medieval II, and almost solely comprise of naptha so far as the formula goes- though I doubt that Medieval II example will mean much to most folks on the forum.

 

*Editx2* Also, the matchlock was fairly common by this period- so that might come into play with my infantry...though pistols will probably be the only firearm my cavalry would mess around with.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Beautancus (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

That is the gun, yes. Awesome looking things, but you wouldn't catch me anywhere near the buggers. Too big a chance of 'em blowing up

 

For my army, I'd go for the old Byzantine lot which I've been basing my armies on. Outdated by this period, but that is kind of the point. Plus, I like them a lot Shiny pictures in my books entice me so. I'm tempted to vere towards what the English had in this period, although that would also mean drastically reducing cavalry and the like, as well as kind of out of character for the Byzantine-based forces of the Greater Holy Empire.

 

It'll be spear or polearm armed infantry with formations of archers, along with cavalry, especially mounted archers. Plus the good old Cataphracts waiting to be unleashed in a battle-winning move, although they'll be rather rare, as they were bloody expensive to maintain. No real surprises in the way of exotic units. Blackpowder weaponry might be limited to Imperial Guard units, but then I doubt that we'll be having the grand battles we're imagining - a bit difficult to RP

 

Not sure if I particularly wish to be the brunt of attacks or raids, but the western part of where my nation is on the map is kind of a playground for any brigand or raider, as Imperial authority has entirely waned by this point in that area, although the Holy Emperor still claims that his word is law.

 

As for trade and the like, not sure how to go about that.

 

[Haruspex]

I imagine for the Haru that they are a combination of sea-pirate like entity, but realizing that the piracy against foreign shores cant sustain a nation, they have also created and field a stout ground force consisting of cavalry with horse mounted archers, and cavaliers with short lances/pikes.

 

Everybody remembers the Uruk Hai from LOTR at the siege of Helm's Deep. Basically I've got the idea in my head to make my muckers look like them. Proficient in crossbows, pikes, and so on. Further supported by archers, and short sword-beserker sword-mace wielding of light-heavy infantry. With a likeness for brutality, weapons would be wickedly curved, serrated, perhaps officers would carry blades of bone or some such.

 

Furthermore, there would be ornate gate smashers for castle sieges, tower technologies, catapults heaving lit packets of gunpowder and sharp objects like glass chunks, bits of iron and what not as a predecessor to the modern shrapnel weaponry. A danger both for the catapult crew as well as those on the recieving end.

 

Pirate wise, I'm going to steer on the edge of fantasy like, and make them brutish, jagged blades of wood, iron, and sail. Cleaving through the seas vast to cause havoc and death.

 

I'll primarily be going for this, as there is a river that cuts through the southern portion of the land towards the sea. This could be a ground of infamy or some such or whatever.

[Tagmatium Rules]

Furthermore, there would be ornate gate smashers for castle sieges, tower technologies, catapults heaving lit packets of gunpowder and sharp objects like glass chunks, bits of iron and what not as a predecessor to the modern shrapnel weaponry. A danger both for the catapult crew as well as those on the recieving end.

The early types of handgrenades were either ceramic or metal pots filled with gunpowder with a wick whacked in. Just light the bugger and lob it, although the grenadier would have to know how to judge the length of the fuse, so that the enemy couldn't pick it up and chuck it back. That sort of thing isn't exactly high technology and probably fairly effective for what it is, although ain't going to be as good as the later technologies. As a point of interest, what Major-General Shrapnel did invent was a shell filled with musket balls. Sounds fairly simple, but it used things like timed fuses and the skill of the gun crew in cutting the fuses meant that the shell would explode above and infront of the target, throwing its load of musket balls in a fan-shape towards the enemy unit. One of those simple but not particularly obvious inventions. As a simpler solution, Richard I of England apparently used flint boulders during a seige in the Holy Land, which would shatter on impact inside the enemy city and throw a load of jagged shards of rock about the place.

 

Bone swords... kind of crappy, really. They wouldn't be much use for parrying and ineffective for blows, too. It'd also be difficult to find a length of bone that long. Perhaps bone daggers as a badge of office, rather than a combat weapon? I did like the swords of the Uruk-Hai, with their square ends. Looked f*cking lethal and heavy. More blugeoning things than anything else, but funky nonetheless. Never too much of a fan of a lot of the fantasy-style stuff - too ornate and not very functional.

 

The thing with berserkers, especiallylightly armoured ones, is that they probably could get cut down very easily by enemies armed with missile weapons, bar the fact that there is little historical evidence for them, bar the usual highly dubious sources that are the stories and later authors. It'd be cool to have them concealed inside of a larger formation and then unleashed when that unit gets closer to the enemy lies. Kind of like the Nigh Goblin Fanatics of the Warhammer universe, if anyone knows what I'm on about.

 

Also, pikes were an infantry weapon. Way too long to use from the saddle. Check out some of the cool late Medieval things like the falchion or Grosses Messer, vicious, single edged swords.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Orioni]

I would actually prefer to do something more solidly in the late 1400-mid 1500's.? Something slightly before gunpowder weaponry became *too* common and relatively accurate.

Sounds fine by me!

 

No gunpowder is ok. Naval battles might be a little less exciting, but I imagine a ballista or primitive fireworks can be just as exciting.

 

And I'll have to remember to provide adequate geographic data. The geographic map should be fine for starters.

[Byzantium Nova]

Hm. Sounds interesting. As soon as I get myself on the map I can devise some strategies too, although they propably (or naturally? ) are derivations of Byzantine strategies.

[Orioni]

@ BN:

Late 1400-mid 1500 is just about right to simulate the fall of the Byzantine Empire.

[Byzantium Nova]

Hehe. You got it right. I?ve been reading somewhere though that Byzantines still had a chance to recover in the beginning of 1400?s, although a very small one.

 

(and I?ve managed to do just that in EU2 and EU3 )

[Tagmatium Rules]

Sorry, Beau. I meant to get one done over the weekend, but I ended up kind of just pissing the time away. That, and playing (and completing) a computer game on the Xbox because I got engrossed in it. I kind of typing up half of a first post, but I was unhappy with it. I don't imagine you could give us a bit more context of this time?

 

@BN: I didn't think that the Byzantines had much chance of recovering at the beginning of the 1400s, as I thought that the Turks were essentially in control of near enough all of the old Byzantine Empire, bar a small bit of land near Constantinople, the Despotate of Morea and the Empire of Trezibond. And then Trezibond was entirely out of the control of Constantinople. The fact that the last few Byzantine emperors were attempting to be way too indepedent of the Turks is what got them crushed.

Edited January 21, 2008 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Byzantium Nova]

Yeah, you?re right Tag. Can?t remember where I read that thing about them having a chance but logically thinking they were out of hope at that point.

 

Well, I can whip up something about the collapse of the old Empire and the reason why there?s the Nova at the end of the name of the empire.