The Dew Point Accords

[Meteorola]

Welcome to all foriegn delegations who have ventured to Dew Point. I hope that you had a relaxing trip. Now to the issues at stake.

 

1) The fate of the two islands off the coast of Area #82

a ) Are they part of Area #82?

b ) Can they be claimed by any nation, regardless of population limits set forth in the rules of the maps?

 

2) The Rules of the Map

a ) What are the territory limits to any nation, in the 'in between' areas (ie, land caputed during the war, islands, etc)

b ) What are legitimate reactions by other nations? Should there by any limitations.

 

We, the Allied States of Meteorola declare the Dew Point Peace Accords (DPPA) offically open.

[Chairman Joaquin]

the diplomatic mission of Zek Berroso has arrived at Dew Point.

 

"We thank Meteorola for hosting these negociations and for there hospitality in housing our 15 person delegation. We contend that the Cenepa isles are not part of plot 82 and that population is not a determining factor for the claiming of non-ploted territories. We must turn down Orioni's suggestion of disscusions at their tables, we see Dew Point suitible. We agree with the newly instated population/expansion rules and will conform to them from now on. Our occupation, which we now formaly announce as an annexation, took place before these rules were made and we do not think that these rules apply to this incident"-Zek Berroso

 

 

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-"My nation, Ekainak, agrees to Tamurin's recon flights over the cenepa islands to calm that country and others. After tensions dissipate these flights will have to end, we only allow it to show our intentions.

[Jaihu]

The Supreme Jaihuian Council has sent a delegation along with King Jaihu the Great to Dew Point for this Conference. Upon arrival at Dew Point, King Jaihu the Great issued the following communication.

 

"The Holy Empire of Jaihu has been greatly discouraged by the recent animosity and accrimony that has been taking place over this matter. Europa's reputation as a region of peace and serenity is at stake, we owe it to all the peoples of Europa to negoiate a settlement to this dispute that is fair and equatable to all the partys involved.

 

The Supreme Jaihuian Council and myself are deeply disturbed by the posture that numberous nations have taken in this matter and would like every everyone to... for the lack of a better word... Chill.

 

The initial position at these accords of the Holy Empire of Jaihu are as follows:

 

1) The fate of the two islands off the coast of Area #82

a ) Are they part of Area #82?

b ) Can they be claimed by any nation, regardless of population limits set forth in the rules of the maps?

 

We believe that as a starting point at these discussions these islands should be placed under the administration of a disinterested 3rd party and that a peace keeping force made up of forces from that disinterested 3rd party. The Jaihuian people believe that while these islands are being administered by this disinterested 3rd party that there should be ongoing discussions between those nations that have a vested interest in the future of these islands. We would not like to be considered as the sdministrator of these islands.

 

The Supreme Jaihuian Council contends that the plots on the map are more of a guide than written in stone, consideration must be given to geopolitical interests as well as the needs of individual nations. For instance, Argenland chose plot 45 which is considerably larger in land mass than plot 40 which was chosen by Baltirow-woud... Argenland has a population of 136 million, whilst Baltirow-woud has a population of 207 million currently... Surely Baltirow-woud should be able to annex suitable lands from the surrounding area unclaimed by others to increase the land mass of their country to the benefit of their nation. Sure Baltirow-woud knew the size of his chosen plot prior to chosing his homeland, but he chose it prior to these rules coming into effect. If these rules had been in effect he may have chosen a more sizable plot to allow more growth. Which bring us to the second point under discussion at these accords.

 

2) The Rules of the Map

a ) What are the territory limits to any nation, in the 'in between' areas (ie, land caputed during the war, islands, etc)

b ) What are legitimate reactions by other nations? Should there by any limitations.

 

Even though the Holy Empire of Jaihu is a relatively new nation in Europa and does not practice democracy at home we do believe that in the community of nations that is Europa that there should have been a vote regarding these rules. If there had been discussion among the membership regarding these restrictions to plots on the map which resulted in a free vote among the community of Europa then I and the Supreme Jaihuian Council would be in agreement. The Holy Empire of Jaihu does not consider these rules to be just and are not valid until such time that there is a free vote among the community of Europa.

 

Our position is that there should be no territorial limitations placed on any nations If a nation can justify annexation of any territory than that nation should be free of all limitations. (OCC: If you are against the expansion of a nation then rp, if the argument is won in rp than you can prevent the annexation.)

[Tamurin]

The Tamurin minister of defense has arrived and thanks Meteorola for hosting these talks.

 

"Tamurin believes that discussions about rules are futile. The rules exist and when we decided to join Europa we decided to live according to these rules created by the major powers in Europa (OOC: meaning founder, mods etc.; this leaves an RP-solution for this situation).

 

Tamurin believes in the power of the people and there's just one way to determine who should be in charge of the invaded islands: The people who live there should vote.

 

This was done in the past before and it's a proven practise.

 

Tamurin proposes the following possibilities for the people of the invaded islands:

 

1.) Independence

In this case, all foreign troops have to withdraw from the islands and never return.

 

2.) Protectorate of Europa

In this case, the islands will become a protectorate ruled by a united council consisting of 50 % natives and 50 % delegates from Europa.

An international peace force, consisting of soldiers from those nations who have delegates in the united council, shall be the only armed force on the island.

 

3.) Part of ekainak

If the people of the invaded islands wish to be part of ekainak, then we have to accept this vote as we would want ekainak to accept a different one.

 

The vote should be prepared and controlled by an international commitee consisting of all major european powers.

 

 

Since Tamurin is not a major power in Europa, we can't play a leading role in this process, but we are willing to help according to our possibilities. This includes our continueing recon flights, which are accepted by ekainak - thank you for that and thank you all for your attention."

[Orioni]

We believe that as a starting point at these discussions these islands should be placed under the administration of a disinterested 3rd party and that a peace keeping force made up of forces from that disinterested 3rd party.

The UN could be a way to go, as delegates I have the contacts that are neede to form a UN peacekeeping-force, consisting of different EU-nations that are member of the UN.

 

Tamurin believes in the power of the people and there's just one way to determine who should be in charge of the invaded islands: The people who live there should vote.

 

This was done in the past before and it's a proven practise.

 

[...] The vote should be prepared and controlled by an international commitee consisting of all major european powers.

This is also a good way to come to an agreement.

 

I have thought of another solution for this problem. Ekainak get's to keep a settlement on a part of the island, let's say the northern part. The southern part would be controled by a multinational force a (major) European nations, with the intent of peacekeeping and protecting the indigenous population. This peacekeepingforce would stay on the island for limited time untill the nation of Ekainak is large enough (> 500 mln), after which the leadership would be handed over to Ekainak. (OOC: Like when Britain handed over Hongkong to China.)

IF Ekainak agrees to this proposal, it has to claim no other land then this when it reaches >500 mln.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even though the Holy Empire of Jaihu is a relatively new nation in Europa and does not practice democracy at home we do believe that in the community of nations that is Europa that there should have been a vote regarding these rules. If there had been discussion among the membership regarding these restrictions to plots on the map which resulted in a free vote among the community of Europa then I and the Supreme Jaihuian Council would be in agreement. The Holy Empire of Jaihu does not consider these rules to be just and are not valid until such time that there is a free vote among the community of Europa.

These maprules were created in light of this dispute. The claim of Ekainak dates from before the rules so is legitimate, but I believe that RP'ing is still required for this claim. These rules were implemented by myself and our RPmod and are based on the rules that are used in several other regions. We believe that these rules are just and fair. We mean to:

• prevent an explosive increase in claim by nations that already have a lot, and
• try and keep the number of nations that have to be removed from the map to a minimum (Byzantium Nova can tell you all about the hard work to keep the map up to date).

The above answer of Tamurin says it best: "when we decided to join Europa we decided to live according to these rules created by the major powers in Europa (OOC: meaning founder, mods etc.; this leaves an RP-solution for this situation)."

[Meteorola]

I have thought of another solution for this problem. Ekainak get's to keep a settlement on a part of the island, let's say the northern part. The southern part would be controled by a multinational force a (major) European nations, with the intent of peacekeeping and protecting the indigenous population. This peacekeepingforce would stay on the island for limited time untill the nation of Ekainak is large enough (> 500 mln), after which the leadership would be handed over to Ekainak. (OOC: Like when Britain handed over Hongkong to China.)

IF Ekainak agrees to this proposal, it has to claim no other land then this when it reaches >500 mln.

 

According to that, though the islands in question are worth the same as a lot. They would take the place of a lot when Ekainak's population was sufficent to claim another numbered area. This would in effect be changing the rules of the map and make it so that a nation could not invade another nation (and hold the territory, as the presumed goal is) unless it was of population to claim another lot.

 

Also disputed territory/borders would have a confusing path to go.

 

We have to think of it that way as well. What rights is a nation given to expand? Does a nation have a right to expand?

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-"my delegation would like more information regarding an election on the island. considering that many of the more powerful nations in europa are opposed to my action, why should we let this election be controlled and determined by these countries? your response could determine our stance on this matter. Although we agree with the rules established for expansion, and are interested in a sort of "caretaker" situation on the islands (A.K.A. Hong Kong), we do not accept that the islands be considered the plot that Ekainak will eventually be able to claim. Phil IV stated in "Ekainak Expands", based on the rules, that: "all un-numbered islands were the property of whoever wanted them". that being stated we refuse to see these islands as a plot, as they are not a plot. We are willing to meet a compromise on this matter, though. The idea of temporarily partitioning the island until we reach a certain population appeals to our leadership. We have a proposition. The island will be split between ekainak and the international forces composed of all interested parties. After Ekainak reaches 500 million people, all foreign troops would exit and the islands would be considered part of ekainak. We see claiming that the islands are on par with a plot is, in itself, breaking the rules. We will agree, though, to pospone any new territorial aquisitions until we have reached a population of 600 billion. All previous claims to maintaing defensive forces on the island unless there exists threatening conditions will stay in effect."

[Argenland]

Argenian Government has has sent a delegation along with Prime Minister Gabriel Costa to Dew Point for this Conference.

 

Prime Minister in the Conferece:

We thankful to Dew Point for his hospitality and your attencion for the solution in this problem.

In "Ekaniaks expands" Orioni said: "Why does Ekainak need to expand? The nation has only 193 million citizens. Orioni didn't expand untill it has well over 1 billion. Your island seems to be quite large enough." Later, in this Conference, Tamurin said "when we decided to join Europa we decided to live according to these rules created by the major powers in Europa".

In my point of view, Ekaniak goes to this islands for colonization. The marihuana plantation is an excuse. And we don't know what is the opinion of the natives or the true resistence. We don't know if Ekaniak is censorship the information or not. May be the natives don't like the Ekaniak Government and don't have the military power to go in a revolution. In this islands may be happens a lots of things but we don't know.

Argenians delegates supports the Orioni proposal. Currently, we think that this is the best solution to solves the problem.

Good days.

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-" If what you disagree with, Mr. Costa, is colonization; then surely you must "amenazar" a great many countries."

 

[Orioni]

IF Ekainak agrees to this proposal, it has to claim no other land then this when it reaches >500 mln.

(1) According to that, though the islands in question are worth the same as a lot. They would take the place of a lot when Ekainak's population was sufficent to claim another numbered area.

 

(2) This would in effect be changing the rules of the map and make it so that a nation could not invade another nation (and hold the territory, as the presumed goal is) unless it was of population to claim another lot.

 

(3) We have to think of it that way as well. What rights is a nation given to expand? Does a nation have a right to expand?

(1) That is what I mean by that, yes. But Ekainak is free to abandon this claim and choose another path for it's future.

 

(2) A nation may try to invade another nation but I believe that the other nations in Europa will prove to be a formidable enemy to anyone who tries to make it on their own. (In mean in RP of course.) Chances are slim for the solo-adventurer. And if we play a truly realistic RP then the total population of a nation counts as well, because a nation of 100 million can never have an army of 50 million soldiers, which seems more realistic for a nation of 1 billion.

 

(3) I believe we all know what the problem is with this issue (an unnumbered claim), but why don't you yourself suggest another solution?

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-"We will explain the political situation on the islands. Before Ekainak's occupation of the Cenepa there were only two kinds of people on the island: drug smuglers and natives. The drug smuglers, we don't how many, run a drugs-smuggling ring, heroin and marijuana. They used the island as a base to manufacture and distribute these substinces to certain countries in the vicinity, which we learned from some of the detained persons. The drug-smugglers carried no papers, but some spoke with foreign accents

The native people were compelled to help cultivate for the smugglers, through intimidation, of so said the tribal council we met with last week. The tribal leaders did not were not fully- happy with the power change that has occured as approxamitly 18 have died, with 73 having suffered injuries. These occured and were perpetrated in figherfights between our forces and the smugglers, and lamentably we probably caused some of these deaths. And we have promised to compensate all of their families. with our force of 500 soldiers, this guerrilla conflict will go on, and we will see more loss of life on all sides. We have offered a area of the islands were they may either stay living as they did before, integrate with ekainak, or do both to a degree, maintaing a degree of self-government that would recieve help from Ekainak to develop its own industry (not drugs, but true industry).

when we said that the only other alternative was death, we meant that only for the drug-smugglers, not for people who have a right to live peacefully.

[Orioni]

Zek Berroso-"We will explain the political situation on the islands.  Before Ekainak's occupation of the Cenepa there were only two kinds of people on the island: drug smuglers and natives.  The drug smuglers, we don't how many, run a drugs-smuggling ring, heroin and marijuana.  They used the island as a base to manufacture and distribute these substinces to certain countries in the vicinity, which we learned from some of the detained persons.

During a press conference at the People's Regime HQ Chairman Joaquin was quoted as saying "This action should not be seen as military agression, our pupose is peaceful.  We plan to settle this island for the cultivation of marijuana, because it's climate suits that plant much more than our islands.  Also the territory now known as the Cenepa islands will be vital as a sea port for commerce with southern Europa.

 

(Source)

After comparing your previous statement to an earlier one by your national leader, it seems to me that Ekainak's only purpose for this island is to try and monopolize the international drug trafficking from Cenepa to (southern) Europa. I don't think Orioni wants that.

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-" that is a great misrepresentation of my countries statements. We don't want to smuggle drugs illegaly into countries. if a nation would like to buy ekainako products from ekainak, be it marijuana or blow-dryers we would sell it to that country. still, I do not believe we would sell marijuana even to countries were it is considered legal as, most likely, it would already have a domestic market. At the present moment we, ourselves, import no foreign marijuana and the Cenepa cultivations will lower the presently existant scarcity brought about by expensive indoor operations. We would not and will not smuggle drugs into countries that councider it illegal, that would only mean war and an gross undermining of their state. We are slightly insulted by this molding of two different and separate reasons."

[Mongol-Swedes]

(Tribal Champion Marcus Lobonsky of the Mongol-Swedes, a nation known for general pacifism and such, takes the floor to discuss his nation's view on the marijuana cultivation issue that the Ekainaki appear to be strongly pushing).

 

"What I am not clear about is why the Ekainaki would prefer to settle on a pair of islands teeming with illicit drug trafficking if their intention is to set-up their own cultivation program of marijuana, rather than simply join the multilateral MMRTA, renowned for its reputation as a peaceful organization whose member nations have long since maintained steady and productive relations in the research and controlled trade amongst themselves of various forms of marijuana."

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-" my previous statement should tell you about the economical reasons for our marijuana interests. it is mainly an issue of supply and demand. We think this supply must go up to make it available to a greater population, after all, are not a docile citizenry easier to administer? we believe so. Before this incursion we had no idea of the illegal trade and the armed forces there, but now that the opposition exists, we see this as an opportunity to better train our military leadership for real-combat situations.

[Tamurin]

Before this incursion we had no idea of the illegal trade and the armed forces there, but now that the opposition exists, we see this as an opportunity to better train our military leadership for real-combat situations.

 

Erm...I'm sure your military was quite eager to test their new "cool" weapons on some drug smugglers, who have more or less nothing to strike back. It's like an advanced life-fire exercise, hm?

 

Although this is a quite interesting topic, it isn't useful in developing a solution.

 

To sum up the last proposals:

 

- Tamurin does not support the idea of dividing the islands into an ekainak zone and an international zone. We would like to see the islands united. (OOC: No more West-Germany/East-Germany, Northern Corea/Southern Corea; it never works out).

 

- The elections for the future of the island should be, as we said, controlled by an european commitee, that should consist of the major powers in europe and ekainak. So ekainak could see that everything is OK and nobody is "pulling" something.

[Meteorola]

Meteorola would like to propose the following:

 

That the islands be turned over to an international force.

 

That Ekainak withdraw all claims to the islands until they possess a large enough population to assume responsablity for the islands.

 

That no other nation will be allowed to claim the islands unless Ekainak clears the claim.

This will prevent the partition of the island and still allow Ekainak the oportunity to control the islands when they are of sufficient population.

 

 

That members of the MMRTA be the ONLY producer AND consumer of drugs.

This would prevent the importation and exportation of drugs in unregulated countries. It would help prevent the illegal trafficing of drugs, such as is occuring on the islands.

[Argenland]

Argenland's Proposition:

 

- An International Force controlled the 2 islands now.

- When Ekaniak <500 mln, Ekaniak can has the islands with plot 82.

- Ekaniak can't claim another plot. Only later <1 bln.

 

This is the best offer can I propose for this conflict.

[Chairman Joaquin]

although that proposition, or one like it is tempting, we have no interest in plot 82.

[Mongol-Swedes]

Meteorola would like to propose the following:

 

That the islands be turned over to an international force.

 

That Ekainak withdraw all claims to the islands until they possess a large enough population to assume responsablity for the islands.

 

That no other nation will be allowed to claim the islands unless Ekainak clears the claim.

This will prevent the partition of the island and still allow Ekainak the oportunity to control the islands when they are of sufficient population.

 

 

That members of the MMRTA be the ONLY producer AND consumer of drugs.

This would prevent the importation and exportation of drugs in unregulated countries. It would help prevent the illegal trafficing of drugs, such as is occuring on the islands.

Tribal Champion Marcus Lobonsky"After conferring with the Tribunal of the allied tribes I represent today, The Socialist Tribal Alliance of Mongol-Swedes seconds the proposition of the Meteorlian government.

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso adresses the floor:

 

"Tamurin: What new cool weapons... our military leadership? If you would like Ekainak to stop its justifications for our actions, as you seem to be saying this is not the place for it, we will. The reason for these discussions, then, can be infered to be the finding of a solution. We agree that a solution be the subject of the Dew Point meetings. But in our agreeing to stop our justifications we will expect other countries to stop what we consider mud-slinging by various nations towards Ekainak, as these commentaries are bringing us no closer to an end of this` dispute and only causing us to make our case to the world. I will refrain from explaining the reason why Ekainak's military has suffered casualties on the Cenepa islands as this would only be a justification in response to mud-slinging.

 

Argenland: We have no interest in plot 82, only the islands near this plot. To possess such a large land mass that far from Ekainak-Proper would be unwanted.

 

SAoMS and Meteorola: Ekainak fully agrees with the objectives of the third element in Meteorola's proposal, but doesn't think that nations were it is legal, yet are not part of the MMRTA should be penalized for its stance. We would agree to MMRTA members being the only nations consuming MMRTA drugs. Ekainak plans to join the MMRTA, so this statement comes only from our principals of self-determination.

In Meteorola's proposal it is stated that the island would be turned over to Ekainak after reaching a sufficient population, but as this isn't a plot, population shouldn't really come into play. But, for the sake of progress we agree to discuss a population mark for complete ownership by Ekainak of the islands, as long as it would have no effect on Ekainaks legitimacy to Expand into plots once we reach the population nessesary for legal expansion, legal expansion being the forum rules.

 

And last, we would agree to an international force on the islands of which we were part of. Equal amount of personnel and firepower for each country."

[Chairman Joaquin]

Zek Berroso-" we recomend that every nation participating in these discussions view what Jaihu has commenced as the issues being disscussed here are some of the same that apply to this other instince."

[Tamurin]

The minister of defense adresses Zek Berroso:

 

"You said, that you saw the existing opposition on those islands as an "opportunity to train your leadership".

 

This indicates, that you see the inhabitants of these islands as a kind of 'advanced training dummy' for military training.

 

We won't comment on this any more, since it speaks for itself.

 

Tamurin can accept the proposal of Meteorola, that the Social Alliance of Mongol-Swedes and ekainak support."

[Meteorola]

That the islands be turned over to an international force.

 

That Ekainak withdraw all claims to the islands until they possess a large enough population to assume responsablity for the islands.*

 

That no other nation will be allowed to claim the islands unless Ekainak clears the claim.

This will prevent the partition of the island and still allow Ekainak the oportunity to control the islands when they are of sufficient population.

 

 

That members of the MMRTA be the ONLY producer AND consumer of drugs.

This would prevent the importation and exportation of drugs in unregulated countries.  It would help prevent the illegal trafficing of drugs, such as is occuring on the islands.

 

Tamurin Social Alliance of Mongol-Swedes and Ekainak have given support to the above proposal.

 

*Ekainak has requested that the annexation of the islands not limit thier option to expand when they have sufficient population, but instead it be a threshold for thier receiving control of the islands.

 

Those nations who support this resolution post "In Favor of" or "Not in Favor of" below. If "Not in Favor of" is your post, please state what amendments you wish to see.