Waco

[Deshnavik]

why does no one ever talk about Waco, Texas and the Branch Davidians?

Edited October 22, 2006 by Deshnavik (see edit history)

[Deshnavik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LUIaRvFAi4

 

enjoy

[Nan Gorgwaith]

Because it was about crazy David Koresh and his brainwashed followers dying in a blaze of glor..stupidity.

 

Why would Europeans care about that? Why do Americans care either? It did not set any sort of precident.

 

What exactly is your point?

 

Oh, I watched only 15 seconds of the hearing and I have about a 30 second attention span for those things.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Nan Gorgwaith (see edit history)

[Mongol-Swedes]

This is me talking without watching the movie, 'cause I researched this all by my one-sies and made up my mind a long time ago...

 

The Branch Davidians had connections with Jim Jones. To jog your memory, Jim Jones was the extremist Christian leader who coined the phrase 'purple Kool-Aid', and suckered millions of very naive and misguided Christians worldwide (mostly in America) to funding his little society that believed our souls were going to heaven in a flying saucer. He had many of his followers drink the Kool-Aid and Jim Jones was convicted in absentia for leading a naughty little cult, this happening in the 1970's and, more recently, when many survivors of those days who drank the Kool Aid believing their souls were going to heaven on the flying saucer, which they believed was passing by Earth at a very specific time.

 

And yeah, the ATF is pretty out of control, just like the IRS has been for almost the past century, enforcing laws that either do not exist or are poorly defined, with lethal force without just cause in doing so. Fascist morality police. Got it.

 

Decide for yourself. But talking about it nowadays can lead you to life imprisonment without trial...actually damn near anything can nowadays, particularly in America.

 

The Branch Davidians is a dead subject compared to the recently passed Military Commissions Act of 2006...there will always be some new cult to make this 'moral democracy' jump. Meanwhile, Bush is working to send the dissenters to imprisonment without trial, and what's more, they can continue to hold you even IF they decide to hold a trial and you are declared not guilty of whatever BS crime they charged you with.

 

Waco, Texas itself, on the other hand, is a pretty nice place. My girlfriend is from there.

[Marsitrania]

Fascist morality police? I don't trust government bureaucrats anymore than anyone else, but comparing them to something like the Gestapo is a bit of a distortion. As for Waco, that was a tragedy that probably could have been averted had the ATF not behaved so irresponsibly and conducted themselves professionally. But Koresh was a nutjob and he and his followers do share blame for the incident.

[Mongol-Swedes]

Pardon my cynicism, but it does get a little bit extreme when the IRS starts kicking down doors, holding guns to innocent unarmed people, and seizing their property without just cause.

 

A little backreading on the ATF will reveal that their policy hardly reflects the rules of engagement that traditional federal law enforcement agencies follow, i.e. torching a building. That's just not the America I want.

 

And it would help if our Congress got off their backsides and did some investigations into these things, and made the findings available to the People of the United States of America. One of the most notable principles of a representative democracy is accountability, and as far as I know, nobody is being held responsible for that grossly excessive manuever by the ATF. Again, not the America I want. And I reckon that there are plenty of people who like to see that everyone gets their just desserts, all things considered, no exceptions based on social status.

 

And when a government is able to terrorize the people without anything being done about it by the people who we elect to office and are supposed to serve their country instead of the country serving them, THAT is pretty flipping close to fascism.

[Marsitrania]

That's true, and I did not mean to imply otherwise. Property seizures and attacks on civilians are unacceptable, certainly. And yes, I do think the ATF and FBI should be held accountable for their actions. You suggested however that federal employees of these agencies are inherently fascistic, and I don't agree with that.

[Mongol-Swedes]

Aaron Russo's video clearly shows that there are many hardworking, good, honest people in these alphabet soup organizations.

 

But it also showed there are plenty of people who refuse to acknowledge the truth. If they're not fascist, then we'll call them IngSoc in action...or should we call it AmDem?

[Tagmatium Rules]

If they're not fascist, then we'll call them IngSoc in action...or should we call it AmDem?

IngCap or AmCap would probably hit the mark more than IngSoc, but that's just splitting hairs.