Orioni Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 We're nearly all Celts under the skin IAN JOHNSTON SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT A MAJOR genetic study of the population of Britain appears to have put an end to the idea of the "Celtic fringe" of Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Instead, a research team at Oxford University has found the majority of Britons are Celts descended from Spanish tribes who began arriving about 7,000 years ago. Even in England, about 64 per cent of people are descended from these Celts, outnumbering the descendants of Anglo- Saxons by about three to one. The proportion of Celts is only slightly higher in Scotland, at 73 per cent. Wales is the most Celtic part of mainland Britain, with 83 per cent. Previously it was thought that ancient Britons were Celts who came from central Europe, but the genetic connection to populations in Spain provides a scientific basis for part of the ancient Scots' origin myth. The Declaration of Arbroath of 1320, following the War of Independence against England, tells how the Scots arrived in Scotland after they had "dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage tribes". Professor Bryan Sykes, a human geneticist at Oxford, said the myth may have been a "residue" in people's memories of the real journey, but added that the majority of people in England were the descendants of the same people who sailed across the Bay of Biscay. Prof Sykes divided the population into several groups or clans: Oisin for the Celts; Wodan for Anglo-Saxons and Danish Vikings; Sigurd for Norse Vikings; Eshu for people who share genetic links with people such as the Berbers of North Africa; and Re for a farming people who spread to Europe from the Middle East. The study linked the male Y-chromosome to the birthplace of paternal grandfathers to try to establish a historic distribution pattern. Prof Sykes, a member of the Oisin clan, said the Celts had remained predominant in Britain despite waves of further migration. "The overlay of Vikings, Saxons and so on is 20 per cent at most. That's even in those parts of England that are nearest to the Continent," he said. "The only exception is Orkney and Shetland, where roughly 40 per cent are of Viking ancestry." In Scotland, the majority of people are not actually Scots, but Picts. Even in Argyll, the stronghold of the Irish Scots, two-thirds of members of the Oisin clan are Pictish Celts. However, according to the study, the Picts, like the Scots, originally came from Spain. "If one thinks that the English are genetically different from the Scots, Irish and Welsh, that's entirely wrong," he said. "In the 19th century, the idea of Anglo-Saxon superiority was very widespread. At the moment, there is a resurgence of Celtic identity, which had been trampled on. It's very vibrant and obvious at the moment. "Basically the cornerstone of Celtic identity is that they are not English. However, to try to base that, as some do, on an idea that is not far beneath the surface that Celtic countries are somehow descended from a race of Celts, which the English are not, is not right. We are all descended from the same people. "It should dispel any idea of trying to base what is a cultural identity on a genetic difference, because there really isn't one." + ? Continue reading Link to comment
Tagmatium Rules Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 (edited) Poo, I still don't like the Welsh, Jocks or Paddies. (Joking, before any of those three groups, or Yanks, have a nut-job...) Argh, and it's from a Scottish paper! *runs off screaming into the night* Edited September 25, 2006 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history) Link to comment
Adaptus Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I'm one part scoitish , and a slight part Irish. My grandfathers family were Irish, and my grandmothers Scotish. Plus the Ramsey name was Originaly English, then passed to Scotland, then to France, and then to England again, so i'm a wide mix realy somewhere down the line Link to comment
Tamurin Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Well...compared to this my ancestors are quite easy...15/16 German, 1/16 southern French. But since the Celts were living all over Europe, we can assume that every European today has some celtic blood. Link to comment
Pirilao Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Early history The region of present-day Portugal has been inhabited for at least 500,000 years, first by Neanderthals and then by homo sapiens. In the early first millennium BCE, several waves of Celts invaded Portugal from central Europe and intermarried with the local Iberian people, forming the Celtiberian ethnic group, with many tribes, such as the Lusitanians, the Calaicians or Gallaeci and the Cynetes or Conii (amongst other less significant tribes such as the Bracari, Celtici, Coelerni, Equaesi, Grovii, Interamici, Leuni, Luanqui, Limici, Narbasi, Nemetati, Paesuri, Quaquerni, Seurbi, Tamagani, Tapoli, Turduli, Turduli Veteres, Turdulorum Oppida, Turodi, and Zoelae). There were, in this broad period, some small semi-permanent commercial coastal establishments, founded by the Greeks and the Phoenicians-Carthaginians. Link to comment
Emakera Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 So according to PIRILAO I have some Celt blood as well, since I'm mostly of Portuguese ancestry (the rest being dutch, spanish, native brazilian, african, swedish and german, according to some research my grandfather did). Link to comment
Tagmatium Rules Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 As far as I can tell, I'm English, as my family were originally from Yorkshire. But, as this article shows, English is a bit of an abstract idea. Link to comment
Ide Jima Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 No matter what the article says, I'm 100% English. (1/2 Anglo-Saxon, 1/2 Something Else English (possibly Norman) ) Link to comment
Deltannia Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Not a drop of English in me. If you are interested, I'm 1/2 Chinese, 1/4 Russian (possibly Belarussian based on some looking into), 1/8 Polish and 1/8 Romanian. Always fun to say. I guess I'm the odd one out in "we're nearly all Celts under the skins" It is an interesting article, though. Link to comment
Vocenae Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I am one part Irish, one part English, one part German, and one part Native American. Although those are getting pretty far back in the 'ole bloodline. But I consider myself an American regardless of any ancestral roots. Link to comment
Adaptus Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I have a friend who was born one a very rare occasion. He is a full British citizen, yet was born in Germany. He was born on a British army barracks in Germany, so in technicality, he is 100% British, yet he thinks himself as German at heart, and as he showed in the last World Cup, he would rather support Germany then England. Link to comment
Miiros Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'm American, seeing as if you broke down my ancestry, you would probably get a long list of about ten pages. =P Probably some celtic blood in there somewhere. Basing things off of my great great grandparents only, I am 1/2 Hungarian, 1/4 French, 1/8 Lithuanian, and 1/8 Slovakian... or something like that. Link to comment
Suverina Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I'm like 5/6 Swedish and 1/6 Walloon. Link to comment
Italgria Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Totally Italian although I was born in Germany Probably also 1/36 Argentinian Link to comment
Tamurin Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 You guys have really interesting families...your genetic profile must be impressive... Compared to that I'm a real boring "pureblood"... (if that's the right word; no racism intended here!!!) Link to comment
Haken Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I'm like 5/6 Swedish and 1/6 Walloon. w00t! I have no idea about my family tree. Link to comment
Orioni Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well my family has been 100% Belgian for at least six generations. We were Belgian even before Belgium existed. Link to comment
Pirilao Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well my family has been 100% Belgian for at least six generations. We were Belgian even before Belgium existed. I think you are Portuguese blood Link to comment
Suverina Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Mmm... Portuguese.. (women) Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now