EOS Anti-ballistic missile-program

[Italgria]

As we have discussed it before our nations set up EOS and as Tamurin has brought this topic into game with the Treaty negotiations with Deltannia again we would like to take a final discussion about this to be able to strengthen our borders in an ever more unresting Europa.

 

We propose that we set up various anti-ballistic stations aswell as military bases along our borders to complete the goal whz this anti-ballistic missile-program was taken into consideration before.

 

Making EOS invulnerable to mostly all Ballistic threaths in Europa.

 

Every member of EOS should pay the same amount and have the same systems as the rest of EOS on their borders.

 

Questions open are:

 

How will we financiate such a program?

Which system from which company shall we use?

How do we establish the anti-ballistic missile-program?

Who will be in charge of setting this up?

 

We would like to discuss this several questions we have and hopefully questions you bring along during this talks.

[Tamurin]

Tamurin welcomes this initiative of Italgria and supports the goal of making EOS invulnerable to a ballistic missile attack.

 

We would like to offer our opinion to the four questions.

 

1.) Finance

Each member should divert money from the defense budget to a joint EOS ABM fond. With this fond a joint EOS-ABM corporation shall develope and build the ABM shield.

 

2.) System

There are several systems possible and many are discussed. However, these are the ones we believe are realistic:

- Anti-Missile Missile System (without warhead, target destroyed by impact)

- Anti-Missile Missile System (with warhead, target destroyed by explosion)

- SHELS (Strategic High-Energy Laser System) - Ground-, Air-, Space-based laser guns (OOC: See this and this for more info; I'm thinking about a larger version of this; that would be Tech +1 in my opinion (Akiiryu?))

- (Anything else?)

 

3.) Establishment

We should proceed with this project like this:

Phase 1: Set-up, planning, deciding

Phase 2: Development of prototypes

Phase 3: Testing of prototypes

Phase 4: Review, if necessary improvement of prototypes (back to Phase 2)

Phase 5: Final decision

Phase 6: Production & Deployment

Phase 7: Review if operational status is achieved; take-over by EOS ABM organization

 

4.) In charge

We propose the creation of an EOS ABM organization that will oversee the development of the system and after that will takeover command. We could call it "EOS ABM organization" or "EOS ABM Command" or something like that.

 

As the central we propose the EOS Island or the nation of Orioni. As the most powerful and most stable nation it would be the best place to start.

[Italgria]

We like your ideas and generally would support it.

 

With SHELS and the picture we saw on the message attached by your nation we saw planes. Do you mean planes destroying missiles? Because if that is what you mean by that you should think about the cost factor that only the fuel will bring us.

 

Instead of creating a EOS-ABM organization and flooding the EOS island with many different organization and at the end we will only loose the overview of all this organizations we propose to set up a EOS-Military Organization which would take care of everything to do with military in EOS.

 

What do the other members have to say about this?

[Tamurin]

We agree to your proposal of the creation of an EOS Military Central Command to control the ABM system and all other EOS military operations.

 

As for the SHELS, we propose a combined system of ground-, air- and space-based laser systems because of redundancy. Ground-based lasers are the cheapest alternative, but they can be destroyed by conventional weapons and sabotage strikes. Aircrafts are immune to that if they're airborne, but they can be sabotaged as well and destroyed by conventional anti-air missiles. Satellite weapons are more or less immune to everything except long-term sabotage.

 

To safe costs we could concentrate on one platform, but to make sure that our defense capabilities are immune against sabotage and conventional weapons we need all three.

 

But first we should discuss if we work on the SHELS or one of the other options.

[Ide Jima]

ooc: Would it be entirely worth your while? The EOS doesn't appear to be under threat of an ICBM strike from any other nations/ groups.

[Tamurin]

OOC: Well, if we at some point are under threat it will be too late. It's better to develop a weapon not needing it than not developing a weapon but need it.

[Italgria]

OOC: At peace you prepare for war. If you think that the world will always be perfect and no war will ever hit you I must delude you. There will always be a war to fight and therefore peace is the best time to prepare for such bad times. I am not saying that EOS will be attacking you all soon I just mean that EOS needs to be prepared to a Europa getting instable day by day...

 

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We would agree on the Laser/SHELS system and think that the most effective way would be using all three options.

[Emakera]

We personally think that this could be excessively dangerous, for these reasons:

 

-Excessively expensive. Even with economies as powerful as ours, this could help in breaking our budgets, specially for Emakera, who invists rather on welfare, education, and healthcare.

-Too good for our morale. When you have a feeling of invulnerability, you'll most likely try to push limits, specially on war and politics. While our current members are reasonable and peaceful, tommorrow things can change.

-There are other ways to stop nuclear wars. First, we could arm ourselves, although this, by itself, is dangerous. Second, we could start to negotiate a reduction on strategic arms with other nations.

-Not all nuclear weapons come from the air. If our nation is infiltrated by someone with intentions of an attack, we are in serious danger, for nuclear weapons, on these days, are more and more concealable, mostly in the form of dirty bombs.

 

But Emakera can agree if we can drop the priority of this program. As Tamurin pointed, it's good to develop this in times of peace, but times of war may come. Our ideas for developing this program without hurry while keeping ourselves safe are:

 

i- Keeping our people united. What happens on Italgria and Tamurin as we speak prove that the laying old man, an expression for popular emakeran sayings, was right: "An idle mind is the devil's workshop." Our peoples should be kept happy, busy, and free to choose their own paths, while united. This can be achieved by invisting more in creation of jobs, education, culture, sports, and on the early start, lots of policemen to stop crime right on it's tracks.

 

ii- Making friends. The EOS should take a more active role in politics, as neither saviour or punisher, but someone you could rely on. We lost some of our prestige with the current events, but we can regain it.

 

iii- Reducing strategic arms. Even though this won't stop a possible nuclear war from raping the land, this can make the european nations be able to keep their warheads safer, and at a smaller price, while keeping their security.

 

We hope that the other EOS nations find this to be reasonable, and wish to discuss these terms with us.

 

Vida longa a Entente!

[Miiros]

Miiros sees this as a sound investment that can only benefit all of the EOS in the long-term. As an island nation with a powerful naval force, the only major vulnerability we face is from the sky and a missile defense network would greatly help to eliminate that threat.

 

We also agree upon the establishment of an EOS military command on EOS Island to coordinate this effort and all future cooperative military endeavors between the EOS and agree that Laser/SHELS systems should be vigorously pursued and Miiros. Investment in ground, air, and space systems would be the most effective way to ensure our nations will be considerably safer from BM strikes. If costs are too great, why not assign certain nations to develop the ground systems, others to develop air, and more to work on the space systems.

 

As for the concerns raised by Emakera, yes it would be expensive, but this is going to be a wonderful long-term benefit for us all. Sure, it might take strain the budgets a bit, but not forever.

Also, with proper information about the program, we can make our people feel safe and secure, but not invincible.

Arming ourselves with nuclear arms as a deterrent is something Miiros would not support as it is hypocritical and morally deplorable. Fighting fire with fire does not reduce the risk of people being burnt, it doubles it. Nuclear disarmament, while an admirable goal, would be nearly impossible in our opinion.

Dirty bombs would still be a risk, but it can be deterred through conventional security forces. ICBMs can take off from the strongholds of other nations and obliterate entire cities, killing millions instantly. With population and infrastructure so dense in Miiros, an ABM program would finally give us a way to secure ourselves against this threat.

 

Also, we can pursue the things Emakera listed while concurrently developing this defensive system. In fact, this project will create jobs and help to advance knowledge while strengthening ties between the EOS since we will all be working together to build a safer tomorrow. To us this seems as sensible as outfitting an army with shields during the medieval times. Sure it costs money, but we must give our people the tools to defend themselves against those who would seek to harm us in the future.

Edited September 5, 2006 by Miiros (see edit history)

[Italgria]

Dear friend Emakera,

 

Firstly we think you misunderstood something important. We are not talking about nuclear bombs. There are different kind of missiles that can do a devastating damage withouth being nuclear

 

To the points you stated:

 

1) As Miiros has already stated we can assign different parts of the project to single nations. But this project has three parts which henceforth means that two nations can work together. This will lower the cost for the single nation even more.

 

2) Pride is a very dangerous thing. May I ask you and your nations citizens a question. Is it better to be proud and have the feeling to be invulnerable in peacefull times or is it better to loose the feeling of being invulnerable, develop this program with EOS and be prepared when dark times arise over Europa instead of being defenseless and henceforth needing help from other nations which would then destroy pride?

 

3) Again we are not talking about nuclear wars. It may be possible that nuclear bombs will be dropped at EOS nations in a far time but the bigger threat comes from the other missiles.

 

4) You can never be completely save from everything. But as Miiros said think of the damage a missile would do than a smuggled bomb?

 

The other things you listed we can pursue while developing this program.

[Tamurin]

Tamurin can only back up what Italgria and Miiros just said.

 

The cost will be split between all our nations; a feeling of invulnerability cannot arise because a terrorist strike can always hit us; Tamurin will never develop nuclear weapons, so this is not an option - plus, it doesn't help in defending EOS; and a dirty bomb or a single smuggled nuclear bomb that is set off by terrorists can never do as much damage as a full strategic strike by another nation.

 

When we all signed the EOS charter, we committed ourselves to develop an ABM shield system. And we think that now is the time to begin.

[Italgria]

To back up what Tamurin just said, I would like to show an extract from the Charter we signed:

 

?. EOS members will undertake regional defense programs, such as, but not limited to, anti-ballistics systems.

 

What do Orioni, Kant and Niederoestereich have to say about this?

[Tagmatium Rules]

OOC: Psst, Kant is Niederoestereich

[Italgria]

OOC: Damn Sorry Kant

[Nan Gorgwaith]

As freshman member, here are my two cents:

 

I am in agreement with the formation of an anti-ICBM Shield and the proposal for cost-partioning seems sound. I also see Emakera's point about why rush? It is important that we start this now, since I would expect that you could not plan, finance, build, and initiate this program in a short matter of time. However, nation to nation conflict seems to be on the downward trend globally and guerrilla/terrorist warefare is taking its place. That is not to mention the media and idological wars that have become popular as a way to subvert the population against their current government, whether democratically elected or not.

 

So I suggest that once the development of this program is underway, and as part of the defensive measures that need to be taken to ensure security, we begin to tackle the other issues of defense such as terrorism (perhaps a remote conference this time to prevent a gathering of officials to become, how should I say, bargining chips for a terrorist organization) and high end weapons proliferation, among others.

 

I propose that we move on this as soon as we hear back from Orioni and Nien..Neider, um Kant.

 

 

 

 

 

[Italgria]

We see your point. But where did we say we wanted to rush it? We just wanted to discuss this and start the project aslong as times in Europa are still peacefull enough to do so. It is important to start soon because my government sees dark times arriving over Europa if the situation in so many nations including Italgria (civilian unrest in Bellaria see Europa today) keeps deterrioring.

 

We also see the need of tackling terrorism down. In fact we are already actively involved in Tamurin to tackle down terrorism over there.

 

This is something a bit off topic but since you already brought the point up. Do you want an EOS internal conference or again a Europa wide conference?

 

Now we would like to keep discussing on the ABM program.

[Tamurin]

Tamurin supports the latest statement of Italgria. The fight against terrorism is a total different thing and it's already going. Discussions about ABM-systems are unrelated.

 

It is right that conventional nation-versus-nation-wars are "out of style" at the moment, but that may change very quickly. One rogue state is enough to pose a threat with missiles against a nation.

 

And to pick up your terrorism-argument, a well-equipped terrorist group doesn't need to sneak a nuclear bomb into a country. This difficult and dangerous. It could easily acquire a missile and launch it against a target. Missiles are cheap and easy to acquire; there are many nations and corporations willing to sell.

 

Tamurin is very determined to build a missile shield system. Since this is also part of the EOS charta, we're a little puzzled here why some members do hesitate now.

[Nan Gorgwaith]

Perhaps I was misunderstood. One of my points was that basically I can see Emakera's call for lower priority since ICBMs are not being launched, at the moment and terrorism is currently affecting at least three of our nations as we speak. Now saying that, I have already stated that the anti-missle program needs to get moving now, even without an eminent threat, for it takes awhile to get something this ambitious into place.

 

My other point was that once this is decided and started, we should immediately hold another conference, prefereably EOS, on terrorism and subversion. I would hate to build a shield that defends against external missles only to have my country fall internally.

 

 

[Damak Var]

Damak Var has their own program (aka the Castle Project). Check it out in trade and developement. But it is a secret!

[Italgria]

Which countries except Tamurin is dealing with terrorists atm?

 

EDIT: And what the heck are two LT members posting in this part of the forum withouth OOC?

[Suverina]

NVM, I'm just not being able to keep track :S

 

 

Edit: To reply Italgria I wasn't meant to. My coordinates was just wrong... I would remove the post if I could... Ittie, don't be such a b*tch, Try to be nice sometimes or nicer atleast.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Suverina (see edit history)

[Vocenae]

OOC: BJE is probably just trying to help/promote his own stuff, and Suv is...well, Suv is being Suv.

[Nan Gorgwaith]

Which countries except Tamurin is dealing with terrorists atm?

 

OOC:

Well I am for one. Just because I do not have other nations participating does not mean it is not a valid RP thread. I have two radical groups in Nan Gorgwaith who have been infiltrated by insurgents from next door. Sure I don't have a palace being attacked... but my leader was just in an assassination attempt by car bomb. If that is not terrorism, then what is? As for the other one, not Tam, I was mistaken. I thought I had saw another EOS nation having problems, might have even been your thread in the Military area. I re-read it and I guess it isn't really terrorist oriented. However, I tend to lump "terrorism" in with coups, assassinations, violent civil unrest and other anti-state violence.

 

IC:

Again, Nan GorGwaith restates its vote that we move forward with developing an anti-missle shield.

 

 

 

[Bainbridge Islands]

The KBI would enthuistically supports the development of an anti-ballistic missile program. In addition to financial and technical support, we offer testing/develomental support on the western plains of Crab Island - a sort of southern "tip of the spear".

[Italgria]

Ok so can it be said that we do agree to start an anti-ballistic missile-program?

 

This is not a high priority for EOS but a priority.

 

If every nation agrees on this program what are the suggestions for the program, what weapons and what infrastructure should we use?