Learning German

[Tamurin]

I've noticed that you're quiet keen on German names for your units. Well, I'm a German, maybe I could help you a little with the names. Some of them sound kind of weird...

 

"Speerspitze": Sounds good and is quite accurate...good one!

 

"Schutzgesellschaft": Not bad, but "Gesellschaft" refers more to a commercial enterprise. I'd propose "Schutzwache" or "Sicherheitseinheit" or vice-versa ("Schutzeinheit" / "Sicherheitswache").

 

"Verstecktoper": Well...that's not a word. I guess you mean "Covert ops service" or something similar. I'd propose "Geheimdienst" (= Secret Service), "Nachrichtendienst" (= Intelligence Service), "Kommando Spezialkr?fte" (Special Forces Command), "Kommando Verdeckte Operationen" (= Covert Ops Command).

 

"Waffen Schutzgesellschaft": Not that bad, but sounds too much like "Waffen-SS" in my ears. I guess you mean a special police force. I'd propose the name "Kommando Spezialkr?fte" (see above), "Ehrengarde" (~ High Guard), "Elitegarde" (~ Elite Guard) or "Schwere Schutzwache/Sicherheitseinheit/etc." (Heavy something). I propose not using "Waffen" as prefix, but "Schwere".

 

"Gerichtliche Untersuchung": Well, that just means "court investigation". It is a process, not a unit. If you mean a secret police, I would name it "Geheimpolizei" (Secret Police), "Staatspolizei" (state police), "Staats-Sicherheitsdienst" (state security service) or "Sonderpolizei" (special police).

 

"Stimmevonmenschen": Means: "Voice of humans". How about "Stimme des Volkes" (Voice of the people) or "Informationsministerium" (Ministry of Information) or "Stimme der Wahrheit" (Voice of Truth) or "Stimme der Nation" (Voice of the Nation).

 

"Schwarzschutzengel": Not bad, but you should call them "Schwarze Schutzengel". Makes more sense.

 

 

I hope I'm not too German on this. I really enjoy seeing a couple of words of my language here (something others could do, too, you know ) and you're doing good. I hope I could help you with this and not annoy you. If so, ignore everything I said and keep it up!

[Damak Var]

no im trying to be accurate on some and just random with others, but I like it. other names i combined stuff with other stuff to seem cool, so they are not really real words. I did look up a lot of good words though.

 

I meant for it to be schutzgesellschaft, as in protection company (it is not a business enterprise however). plus it sounds more appealing to me.

 

verstecktoper is actually from versteckt operations. Verstecktoper

 

everything else I think is alright, except I think Ill change the name of the Stimmevonmenschen and the Gerunter.

 

"Waffen Schutzgesellschaft": Not that bad, but sounds too much like "Waffen-SS" in my ears.

....thats the idea. Im basing the SG over the SS, minus racism and unnecessary brutality.

 

I am trying to learn German right now, I think its probably the coolest language out there. Everybody thinks I am weird because everyday after school I go home and study the German grammar books I bought, try to memorize words from the german dictionary, and listen to audio learning CD's. Watch, in a couple months I'll be able to speak german pretty well and I will be the coolest guy in school!

 

What is weird are these separable prefixes for verbs. Like ansehen, you conjugate it normally and put the prefix at the end of the sentence? Like "Ich sehe...an", I understand the concept but it seems weird. It should just be conjugated normally.

Edited June 13, 2006 by BlackJackEmperor (see edit history)

[Tamurin]

Aaah, I see...

 

OK, then this (Verstecktoper) makes more sense...but to be picky again ( ), "Stimme des Volkes", not "Stimme von Volkes" and you forgot an "e" in "Schwarze Schutzengel"...

 

Interesting that someone believes German to be a cool language. Here it's more or less the other way around. English is cool, French is romantic, Latin is intellectual, Japanese/Chinese are inhuman...

 

A question: How come you're so interested in learning and speaking German? OK, cool language aside - when did you start to be interested in it (if it's not to personal, I'm just curious). Maybe I can help you a little. If you have questions, you can ask me.

 

Yeah, this "ansehen" and "Ich sehe...an" can be difficult to get used to, I guess. I can't explain to you why it's like that, only that it's quite common. There are a lot more verbs like that, for example "aufstehen", "ankommen", "abst?rzen" etc.

 

As long as you understand the concept, you'll do fine. I've learned English and a little French and Spanish, and during that time I accepted that languages are not logically "designed" and that there are certain things you just have to accept and get used to. After some time, you'll get used to saying "Ich stehe...auf" and when you hear someone saying "Ich aufstehe...", you'll roll your eyes and get ear-cancer, I promise...

 

So, good luck for you with your German!

[Damak Var]

Nuclear program is gone. I did not know you were suppose to rp development of nukes first to have them, sorry ppl.

 

Tamurin, I changed it to des to be more accurate and thank you.

 

Now about German....I just want to know another language and German seems coolest to me. I dont really like spanish, or any other language better. Despite what they say, I think German is easier to learn than Spanish. The weird thing is I do not have any immediate plans to go to Germany or Europe, I have never been to Europe, I have no German background, and Tamurin, you are the second person I have communicated with in my life that knows how to speak German. Also I do not know of anybody in my community that speaks German. But for some reason, I just want to learn the language. Also German history is very interesting to me. Especially Nazi Germany (which is what I base Damak Var on), despite all their "questionable" ideals. There is just something about the language that I like, the pronunciations and all. In my opinion German is the coolest sounding language in the world. I am confident with the rate of practice I am doing now, I will be decent at German in a couple months. I can already do simple present tense sentences. When that time comes I will be the coolest guy in my school and all the girls are going to want me! (maybe )

Here is why I'd rather learn German than other languages, no offense to those who speak these languages.

 

French- Too elegant

 

Chinese- Too hard, I lived in China, living in China sucks

 

Japanese- Too hard, do not like sound

 

Spanish- History of Spanish speaking nations do not interest me. I do not like the sound of language

 

Russian- Nah

 

Arabic-Could be useful since I want to join Marines, maybe after I learn German

 

 

Now, my questions about German. Can you use a seperable prefix you described for me in a sentence as an example? Then how do you pronounce...

 

Jetzt

 

eine (ein-neh) or (aayn) or (EE-neh)

 

And can you give me all the ways in German that you can say "I like to eat cheese."

 

And how do you say "to tell"? I tell her, "No I won't make out with you!"

 

Just answer me when you can. I do not have a German dictionary yet, just this learning book and some audio CD's. I am going to buy one soon.

 

Danke schon! (missing umlaut in that, but I do not know how to put that in here)

 

 

Edited June 17, 2006 by BlackJackEmperor (see edit history)

[Tamurin]

OK, understanding a little more about your motives now...although, if you wanna join the Marines, Chinese might be the future language to learn. In 2020, at the latest, China will be the global adversary of the US, despite both say now. The clues are just too obvious...

 

Well, the history of Germany in the first half of the 20th century is indeed very interesting. You can clearly see how the industrial and imperialistic age dies in WW1, how some people using modern-style mass-media can gain control over a beaten and defeated people and turn them into a war machine, abusing its best minds to build weapons, and how to turn people into racists by using pseudo-scientific methods...

To understand a dictatorship and how it works, the history of Nazi Germany is really and eye-opener...

 

OK, about your German:

My first advise is: Get some audio and video material from German native speakers. You have no idea how much it helped my English to watch every movie and television show in English Original. Many, many seasons of several shows (Friends, SG-1, Atlantis, Babylon 5, Enterprise, Galactia, Galactia 2003 - that are ... <<calculating>> ... 410 hours of English television that taught me common English (and I watched it more than once...yes, I'm pretty hung-up on Scifi ).

 

Problem is, Germany does not produce as many movies and shows as the US and most from here is crap. But there are a few movies you could watch:

 

- "Das Boot", WW2-war movie about a submarine. Get the long edition, it's about six hours long. Some dialects are pretty hard, but the dialect-speaking guys don't play major roles.

 

- "Der Untergang", WW2-Hitler movie, just hit the cinemas 1 or 2 years ago. It's a mixture about Hitlers last days in Berlin and the last days of the German Army in Berlin. Really good movie, just not something you can watch for entertainment. But a good history lesson.

 

The problem with all other German movies are - I don't think that they've made it to the US, but everyone would help. If you could get some movies with a German synchronisation that might help, too. And maybe you could watch German television via Internet, there are some channels here (www.n-tv.de, www.n24.de) that broadcast into the internet (both are news channels, currently filled with World Cup).

 

Pronounciation, argl...OK...

 

"Jetzt"

- The first part "Jet" is pronounced just like the English "yet"

- Now add a short and hard "z" to it, like in ... no word you have in English... ...try a hard "s" like in assassin

- Now add another hard t like in the end of yet

- So, to sum up: yet-ss-t

 

"eine"

- "ei" like the letter "I" in English, maybe a bit shorter and faster

- "ne" like in Internet

 

All the ways in German to say "I like to eat cheese"...

Well, some are: (why cheese?)

 

- "Ich mag K?se" (= I like cheese, most easy way to say it)

- "Ich mag gerne K?se" (= I like cheese, boosts it a little, although the "gerne" is not really necessary to make clear what you mean)

- "Ich esse gerne K?se" (= I like to eat cheese; now the "gerne" is necessary)

- "Ich esse sehr gerne K?se" (= I like to eat cheese very much)

 

That covers the most common ways to say it, I think.

 

"To tell" - well, that depends. I guess you mean, how do we say "And then I told her this and then I told her that". There are two words for that:

 

"Sagen" and "Erz?hlen"

 

"Erz?hlen" is when you narrate something (like a fairy tale) or when it was a really one-sided conversation. Like "I told him about my entire life for about eight hours" - that would need "erz?hlen".

 

"Sagen" is for everything else. Like "I told her I won't go out with her" - that would need "sagen".

 

Plus: In these cases you use the present perfect. Past tense isn't used in spoken German in these cases, it sounds too much like written German.

 

So, Translations would be:

I told him about my entire life for about eight hours = Ich habe ihm acht Stunden lang von meinem ganzen Leben erz?hlt. (verb highlighted)

 

I told her I won't go out with her = Ich habe ihr gesagt, dass ich nicht mit ihr ausgehe.

 

Bitte sehr! (Yeah, I know - american keyboards don't have umlauts integrated)

[Damak Var]

Ich habe ihm acht Stunden lang von meinem ganzen Leben erz?hlt.

 

literal translation would be---I have him eight hours long for/of my entire life I told.

 

Am I right?

 

wouldn't it be better to say....Ich habe fur (no umlaut ) acht Studen erzahle ihm uber mein/meinem ganzen Leben. ????

 

I have for eight hours told him about my entire life.

 

I wouldnt know if that is better, so JW. Oh yes, the next chapter of my book that I am learning from is teaching past-tense, so I have not studied it yet. So my past tense is probably wrong in that. Also I do have audio learning CD's (pimsleur, only ones I could find).

Edited June 17, 2006 by BlackJackEmperor (see edit history)

[Haken]

Ich habe erz?hlt, like in the exemple of Tamurin, I believe.

 

Having Dutch as my mother language and having learned German, your translation is indeed right... if it's literal. Correct translation would be:

 

Ich habe ihm acht Stunden lang von meinem ganzen Leben erz?hlt.

> I have told him eight hours from my entire life.

 

Also, it's logical you can learn German better than Spanish, as German is very similair to English, while Spanish is a romanic language.

 

 

For movies, I think "Das Experiment" is also distributed worldwide. pretty decent film.

 

And there are the songs:

99 Luftballone

Schnapi

Wunderbar (wunderbra!)... altough I think that has only one word in German.

 

... Hmmm, maybe isn't German the best language for songs, forget about that suggestion.

 

@Tamurin: for a "z" in English, why don't you use a word the English has picked up from your language: zeplin.

Edited June 18, 2006 by Haken (see edit history)

[Damak Var]

Haken, did you take a class to learn German

 

(We are getting so off topic)

[Haken]

I had it for three years in high school. I wasn't good in it, alas.

[Ide Jima]

^Likewise. I'm giving it up this year. But don't let that put you off DV

[Damak Var]

Well it depends how interested you are. I have no enthusiasm for Spanish, which is what I am currently taking. I will have to take it next year as well, because to get into a college in Washington State you need 2 years of foreign language. So since I took it this year, I am stuck with it next year. Plus there is no German class at my school. So I've taken Spanish this whole school year. At the rate I am learning German on my own, I will know more German than Spanish by the end of July.

 

EDIT: Plus Danny Saunders from The Chosen learned German on his own. If he can do it, I can do it!

Edited June 19, 2006 by BlackJackEmperor (see edit history)

[Tamurin]

@BlackJackEmperor:

 

Ich habe f?r acht Stunden erz?hle ihm ?ber mein/meinem ganzen Leben.

 

Well, no. There are some structural mistakes in that sentence and some grammatical ones as well. But that's no problem. If you haven't completed the grammar yet, you can't expect yourself to know everything already. You're very good considering that you learn it completely on your own and that you don't have any native speakers around. Give yourself some time and you'll get along quite well...

 

@Haken:

Well, he could listen to Rammstein, if he's into Heavy Metal. They're quite popular in the US according to what I've heard...their texts might not be the most...erm... "nicest" ones, but they're at least German...

 

I didn't know that the English language uses "Zeppelin" or "Zeplin". That's new to me...

 

@All:

Really getting off-topic. Can someone split and move this topic? I can only move...

[Damak Var]

But keep my OOC information here

[Tagmatium Rules]

Sorry - move where?

 

General, as it's become more of a discussion on German?

[Tamurin]

I thought so. But we need to split the topic (the first post should remain here). But my mod options only allow "move", not "split".

[Damak Var]

I bought the pimsleur audio learning CD's to help out on pronunications. The book that I am learning from is called "The Everything: Learning German Book". This book got a pretty good rating on amazon, and it works well for me. Only thing that I don't like is the lack of pronunciations guides.

[Accra Imperiale Dichia]

I've taken three years of German and used something similar as well, I think that the best way to get better at it is A) have a human teacher who can answer questions and listen to German Music. I've been listening to *Ramms+ein for a while now, I must say that hearing real Germans as much as that does help... and if you ever have to do creative writing for that class, it's a great way to get an A.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Accra Imperiale Dichia (see edit history)

[Tamurin]

I can only agree. The best way to learn a language is hear it from native speakers. Worked great for me when I learned English and still works today...

 

Pronounciation is indeed a very important thing. Maybe you should add a specialised "German pronounciation guide" to your learning equipment some time in the future...

[Accra Imperiale Dichia]

H?rst du Rammstein gern, Tamurin?

Edited June 21, 2006 by Accra Imperiale Dichia (see edit history)

[Pirilao]

To listen and to write , to go through the mill to speak fluently . For my part.

[Soigacas]

I hope you were paying attention to that, Ide Jima

 

Ich lerne Deutsch seit f?nf Jahren. Im 2004 bin ich nach S?dbayern gegangen mit die Schule.

[Ide Jima]

Ja, me too

[Tamurin]

Wow, look how many of you are learning German...I'm deeply impressed!

 

@Accra:

Ja, doch. Rammstein ist zwar nicht meine Lieblings-Band, aber ab und zu h?re ich sie doch ganz gerne.

 

@Everyone:

I have a video here that might help those of you who still learn German in school:

 

http://www.die-kunst-des-spickens.de/downloads/film/

 

The LiveStream at YouTube is down, but the direct download below that works.

 

It's a satiric German video about the art of cheating in school...mocks the German old-style documentations we had to watch in school. They're pretty dull, but very easy to mock...

 

It's just for those with a good internet connection, the video is an AVI-File about 100 MB large.

[Damak Var]

Well it doesn't surprise me you all know english, my language.

[Tamurin]

It shouldn't, otherwise communications in NationStates would be quite difficult...