Map v3: Discussions

[Ide Jima]

There seem to be a few ideas circulating about the map, so it's probably best that we have a thread to discuss the said details seperately of the other ideas thread.

 

As it stands, everyone wants the map to change in style at least. What changes do people think we should make to the map - how far should we go in its reorganisation?

[Pirilao]

@Ide Jima, I cannot but agree

[Adaptus]

well i think we should model it off the real world, i dont mean a world map, but say have an area similar to scandanavia, have an area similar to the crimean, and italy, and so on, but also distinctive to Europa, also we need more brighter colours, light sea, and light land. the idea of a purly politial map and a georaphal map are good ones,i belive we should only have the nations colour name, and mybe flag on their plot, and maybe their capitol. and on the subject of polts, i belive we should keep the expantion for older members, but limit it to 4 plots. plus i think we need more land areas on the map, the current map has land in the north, center and south, but only realy strips of land, i think w need a more random, and larger land area, rather than three strips.

[Tagmatium Rules]

If you look at the map, you'd see a lot of the "Europe" part already.

[Haken]

People want a new map?

[Ide Jima]

@Haken: Have you seen This?

 

Generally speaking people want Europa to be kept the same, but I agree with Adaptus that we need a few more features, as well as simpler details.

 

To take both these opinions into account, perhaps a further expansion is in order, creating more randomly placed continents in the outer reaches of Europa. Also, if in terms of climate these areas were to be themed, then it would also add a sense of reality to proceedings

[Deltannia]

Well, what would that do to all RPs, first of all. I mean, I know that I share one border, I know that eastward I am open, and that I am located coastally. If it changes, a lot of it has to same the same in configuration, I would think.

[Ide Jima]

That's very true, and why some of us were pushing for even further changes to the layout of Europa. A simpler system where we use the same map, just presented differently and with overlays would also work.

 

The main idea behind the extension of Europa to new lands would be useful in that new players have more choice over where to go (i.e. they aren't forced to set up shop in the sphere of influence of a massive nation)

[Dragonryders]

A mapman's dream.

 

I see a couple of nations want to conservate their nation's shape and size. This could be a problem for a new map, especially if neighbouring countries with different climates want to stay neighbours for some reason.

 

It would be easier to say no-one can keep their land. Advantages include the mingling of nations/players, the new RP possibilities, the new relations also between newer nations, who get more central positions.

 

The last argument is also for me the most convincing one to make a new map, along with the overlays. I believe the climate and geo-topo-graphical maps will add to the RP-experience and make picking a spot a lot easier and more realistic.

 

With the expansions, newer nations are forced outside (certainly by expanding the existing map, which I don't like for that reason plus the fact that you can't apply the overlay maps). Limiting plots could be an option to keep enough space.

 

The colors aren't a problem. They can be anything we want. The flash is. I don't know a lot about flash and I'm not sure if any mapchanges are easy in that format. Also, the filesize might just be too big, while it doesn't add much, besides perhaps some graphical quality. RP-quality or map-quality aren't per definition increased. Then again, if someone does know how it works, there can be cooperation.

 

Europa mentioned that we'd have to encorporata everyone's wishes in the new map. I think that if we make a comprehensive map, every type of combination should be covered. It is then not a matter of the map adjusting to the nations, but the nations choosing the most suitable spot.

 

The primary objection to a new map is the conservatives. I understand they've put a lot of work in their country's outlines and they like to keep it. Perhaps if one is capable of proving that there's a lot of work in them that can't be replaced in the new map, we could try to make a custom spot for that nation. However, neighbours must choose themselves where they want their nation to be, so there's probably going to be changes. This can be regarded as a challenge.

 

 

 

Summary of arguments for and against a New Map.

 

Plusses

+Newer players less isolated.

+Climate and geographical features on the map.

+More coherent continent structure possible, if deemed necessary.

+Dead countries removed.

+New plot devision/distribution system possible.

 

Minusses

-Impacting changes to deeprooted countries.

-Map has no history.

-Takes time to start up.

[Haken]

*drools at the idea of one massive LT powerblock*

 

I'm all for this new map.

[Ide Jima]

I'm all for it, it'd give Europa the change it needs.

[Orioni]

I'm all for change, as long as I can choose to stay a maritime nation, located on a peninsula, with my mountains and rivers intact. Colonies etc can be subject to change, but I'd like to keep my mainland as it is. (If feel I'm entitled to at least some continuity.)

 

Look, here's the first ever map of Europa.

© Stoned Smurfs

[Ide Jima]

Wow... It's like looking at those maps of Europe in the middle ages.

 

I'm sure everybody's wishes will be taken into account

[Pirilao]

I also agree to the new map, but we have that attention ace old localization.

EXP. I have an island and I want an island.

[Akiiryu]

I like where I am and the way I am (island included). If we're going to change the map I'd like Akiiryu to say pretty much the same (down to the great lake and the canal). I also have made a number of references to the typography of the country (high cliffs along the coast line with lots of rocks, mountians around Kaimona, badlands in the inland northeast of the country) so I want that to stay the same too.

 

Yes, I being a pain...but I've built Akiiryu up and I don't want to change it unnecessarily.

[Tagmatium Rules]

Sorry to be another nay-sayer, but I'm going to have to agree with both Akiiryu and Pirilao. I've put a fair bit of work into my nation's current shape, and have written a bit of history of the conquoring/loss of it, although it's in my wiki, which I'm not please with. I'd like to still have a fat chunk of land on one side of a channel/strait, and a smaller chunk of land on the other side. Basically, I'd like Tagmatium to be the way that it appears now on the Europa map, adding Van's plot below. I'm not godmoding on that count, we've had a discussion on it and it also relates to a previous cartographer's mistake in giving him the wrong plot, one that he didn't RP for. But I'm slowly working myself onto a tangent.

 

So, call me a "conservative" (it's about the only time you'll ever get to ), but I would like Tagmatium to stay in the same position, on the same channel, on the map.

[Ide Jima]

If it means we will have a better map, I would be willing to change my nation

[Dragonryders]

If it means we will have a better map, I would be willing to change my nation

Remember, if there is going to be a new map, the plots will be as diverse as possible, which means you'll be able to choose any plots that resemble your previous country, if you'd like to.

 

You will not be assigned a new spot, ofcourse. There is freedom of choice.

 

 

I propose:

For the nations that definitely* want to keep their exact state, we will need a climate description, map with cities and mountains and rivers or a description of those and just anything else you want to keep the exact same.

 

*We will accept claims for shape-preservation based on elaborate RP (historical) reports mentioning lots about the nation's shape, structure and geography.

We shall not accept claims on economic, military or logistic advantages a certain nation possesses on the current map, because I think that's cheating. Those claims will have to wait for the map to be released.

 

What do you think?

Edited February 1, 2006 by Dragonryders (see edit history)

[Adaptus]

but that would be very time consuming, i say we just find out who wishes to keep their plot the same, and try and match it as best we can when drawing the new map.

[Dragonryders]

but that would be very time consuming, i say we just find out who wishes to keep their plot the same, and try and match it as best we can when drawing the new map.

Yeah, that's what I meant, but it got lost in difficult phrases.

 

We should try to fit plots of certain nations that have a good reason to keep their plots the same, into the new map.

 

A good reason is when a nation has a big RP-history. Not because they like the shape of their plots, because it looks a bit like the letter F, or because their position has good tactical or economic possibilities.

[Orioni]

Well I made a geomap before, but I guess most of us haven't.

 

I suggest making a shortlist of nations who really definately want to keep their nations as they are (+ tell us some geographical stuff), and then try and build around that in some way.

[Pirilao]

I agree with you Orioni, they start with the list.

 

I want my nation with the same aspect, the same cities, the same rivers and roads, the island (landeira) and if possible 2 mountains and some green spaces .

The same colour ( red )

Change teh flag , I whant my new flag.

I want to be in the south of the map , as it is now.

If such will be possible is good.

[Emakera]

Idea. Create a random map on Civilization, save it, put the countries that doesn?t want to be changed, and tchans... we?ve got teh map yo!

I want my nation in the south, if possible, and i?ll be happy in whatever way you shape it.

[Dragonryders]

We don't know yet what the climate will be on the map, so saying you want your country in the south might not make a lot of sense.

 

If you have a good reason to keep your country the same, you may request it to us.

 

However, do not request your country's location yet if you're not of the above group. You will be able to pick your spot as soon as the map is released. *looks at chairman Ryth *

[Upper Strathyclyde]

Sorry to intrude guys, but will there indeed be a new map, or is this simple discussion. I'm a bit new, so i am lost. Thanks.