Haken Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 It is still offensive. Well it seems TCN really wants this to go trough. Can't you come up with an alternative with which you can live? Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 No. It is offensive. I have spent a considerable amount of my life fighting stuff like this and writing about what happens when such ideas are given the light of day. IC my nation will condemn it just as I do OCC. Link to comment
Haken Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Well then no point in continuing this, I suggest we classifie this issue. There are other ways too RP a extremist nation. Link to comment
Adaptus Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 i must agree, this is very offensive, and i myself also stand strong against Nazisim views. alough, this could lead to a good anti-nazi RP, which could also act to voice the regions veiwes of nazisim, and if treat strong enough, may show other people what the modern view of nazisim is across the NS world. if TCN would agree, we could get a very powerful RP going. Link to comment
Haken Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 i must agree, this is very offensive, and i myself also stand strong against Nazisim views. alough, this could lead to a good anti-nazi RP, which could also act to voice the regions veiwes of nazisim, and if treat strong enough, may show other people what the modern view of nazisim is across the NS world. if TCN would agree, we could get a very powerful RP going. Well seeing TCN is RP banned, Europa is tired of war and the fact that everyone is opposed to nazism... I don't think you're idea is going to be really popular. Link to comment
The Chosen Nations Posted October 30, 2005 Author Share Posted October 30, 2005 I can't reply in the RP section. So any RP involving me could not really begin untill I regain my posting rights. I don't see what is wrong with this. Couples need a liscence to have a child (as in China), Contraception, family planning, and abortions are provided free of charge, there is less abuse of children because parents have to undergo screening and tests, it adds more weight to criminal convictions. Finally TCN is not stopping any person who wishes to leave TCN from doing so, and The People of TCN have voted on this Act, and approved it. Also people have been saying that this is Nazism, this is not the case: Nazism: According to Mein Kampf (My Struggle), Hitler developed his political theories after carefully observing the policies of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. He was born as a citizen of the Empire, and believed that ethnic and linguistic diversity had weakened it. Further, he saw democracy as a destabilizing force, because it placed power in the hands of ethnic minorities, whom he claimed "weakened and destabilize" the Empire, by dividing it against itself. When can I RP again? Is there a condition that I must meet? Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 TCN, you my want to look into the Nazi T-4 programme (the mudrer of people with disabilities, it was, in many ways, the practice run for the Holocaust) before you start saying what you originally proposed was not Nazi-like. Also keep in mind that Germans voted the Nazis into power (as were the other governments who passed similar eugenics laws in their territories) so that voting thingee is a little suspect (indeed, given YOU control the people of TCN your defence means nothing). Oh, and if you're going to quote something (in this case wiki) please make sure to reference it. You're guilty of plagarism if you do not. Link to comment
Europa Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Above is The Reformed Betterment of Human Charestics Act, 2005. This idea I am floating, and will replace the previous Act. Scrapping 2 articles, indeed the most offensive ones, from an entire page isn't really cutting it. I have no idea what your intention was when you wrote and posted this. Trying to get some reaction? Seeking attention? You've got to learn that not all RP's should revolve around you. You keep pushing the boundaries. I got no problems with people wanting to RP a dictatorship, but you've clearly crossed a moral boundary here, judging by the reactions I got to this Bill. And no need to deny it, these are nazi-practices. The master race (German: Herrenvolk) is a concept in Nazi ideology. They saw their "Aryan race" as being a master race, going to extreme lengths to maintain the purity through a far-reaching eugenics program. [source:wikipedia] You've got to keep in mind other peoples feelings too. Some people here might have lost relatives during the Holocaust, or might have disables family members,.. When can I RP again? Is there a condition that I must meet? I'ld say about a week, varying on how well you're behaving in the meantime.... Link to comment
The Chosen Nations Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 1. I will remember in future to name my source, as I have done in the past, but just forgot to this time. 2. No I was not trying to get a huge reaction, and I do realise that all RP's don't have to involve me. For Example, I have kept out of the Deltannian Civil War, and played a very minor part in the Imperialist Crisis in Bhalman. So I do not feel that You've got to learn that not all RP's should revolve around youis a totally fair comment. 3. Under The Reformed Act, people with disabiliteis are not killed. And EVERYONE must undergo the tests before they can get a lisence to have a child. I could have ommited some clauses that target solely disabled people, but the end result would have been the same: they would have failed to get a lisence. If it causes offence to anybody I will ommit those clauses, but as I have said before, the end result will be the same. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Trying listen TCN. People are not going to accept this. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 TCN, for the last time this is offensive. Your bill detains people, decides who and who cannot have kids (Criminal record? So someone who shop lifts as a stupid 18 year old can't have kids when they are thirty...The family history thing is based on flawed science too, people knew that by the 1930s). I might also point out IQ tests are culturally subjective (not to mention favour some social classes over others). I could go on as I write on this, but it suspect you're not going to listen to anything I (or anybody else) says. Link to comment
Haken Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Hmmmm, it seems acceptable to me. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Really, are you aware of how these laws actually operate? Think about the implications here Haken. Especially with the permit to have children part and the detaining(!) of people with disabilities. 1) What if the family wants to care for their disabled child at home? 2) Family histories of mental illness/ physical disabilities are questionale grounds (understatement) for denying someone the chance to have a child. Good God, we all have histories of some kind of disabilities and mental illness in our families if we dig hard enough. 3) Define disability and mental illness. In the past homosexuals were considered mentally ill, as were people who did not "fit" in for whatever reason (meaning that minorities tended to be over represented in the mentally ill population). 4) IQ tests are socially and culturally subjective. Moreover, they are open to abuse. 5) What the hell is a general reasoning test? 6) The first point seems to be contradicted by point 5 (may actually should say will). 7) The rules are being enforce by a group called the...wait for it...SS! Link to comment
Haken Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 [*]After a child is born it will undergo a series of tests, at different ages. If the child is deemed to be "below average" at any of the tests it shall be flagged for futher testing. If this testing is also failed it will go down on the persons record, and may dissallow that to have (a) child(ren) Doesn't seem so unethical to me to RP this. [*]All immigrants entering TCN will be screened with tests. If they fail, and are proven to have no skills that are useful to TCN they are immediatly deported (unless they are refugees that The Government has allowed to enter TCN) If they pass they are granted indefinate leave to remain (maximum). If the immigrant couple decides to have a child they must undergo the same tests and check that a citizen of TCN must go through. IN real life some countries only let people who they can use in. [*]Contraception, family planning, and abortions are free of charge and provided by the state. Ok. [*]All couples must have a state issued permit to allow them to have children. Ok. [*]To obtain one of the prementioned permites, both the prospective mother and father must undergo, and pass certain tests and checks: Eyesight, Hearing and Physical Ability Screening IQ Tests General Reasoning Test Parenting Test, following the completion of parenting courses Neither prospective parent can have a criminal record Neither prospective parent can have any family history of mental illness, or physical disability I suggest to cut the last sentence. [*]All unborn babies (foetus') are tested to discover if they have any diseases, or conditions. Already done in western countries. [*]All people with sever mental disabilites shall be detained in special centers where they can be properly cared for. In theory, doesn't seem so bad. Ofcourse it's not nice to oblige it, but I think it is within RP limits. [*]There shall be a new wing of The SS setup to make sure the above rules are enforced. SS is just a name... Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Haken, We'll have to agree to disagree. I think this is offensive for a number of reasons - the most central being I know what these bills lead too. The Nazi laws were based on laws passed in the United States (with one or two words changed only) much like this one. Think about that. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Explain the necessity (and what you mean by): Eyesight, Hearing and Physical Ability Screening, IQ Tests, General Reasoning Test? Keep in mind some of the best parents I know are deaf. Who will deem a person is a risk to themselves or others. What do you mean by risk? Link to comment
The Chosen Nations Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 A Majestrate's Court will decide which individuals should be detained under the principles of Involuntary commitment. "A person may be admitted to and detained in an approved mental health service as an involuntary patient in accordance with the procedures specified in this Act only if? (A.) the person appears to be mentally ill; and (B.) the person's mental illness requires immediate treatment and that treatment can be obtained by admission to and detention in an approved mental health service; and (C.) because of the person's mental illness, the person should be admitted and detained for treatment as an involuntary patient for his or her health or safety (whether to prevent a deterioration in the person's physical or mental condition or otherwise) or for the protection of members of the public; and (D.) the person has refused or is unable to consent to the necessary treatment for the mental illness; and (E.) the person cannot receive adequate treatment for the mental illness in a manner less restrictive of that person's freedom of decision and action. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 And the rest of my questions... That bill also only applies to people with mental illness, not intellectual disabilities. Link to comment
The Chosen Nations Posted October 31, 2005 Author Share Posted October 31, 2005 People with "intellectual disabilities" are very likely to fail the tests required to obtain a lisence. Link to comment
Akiiryu Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 Really? Care to define which ones will fail and why? What about educational disabilities? Link to comment
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