Genetic Engineering

[The Chosen Nations]

I wat thinking of Genetically Engineering some of my TCSF commandos, to make them into "Super-Troopers". (For Example Master Chief form Halo, and Halo2).

 

Is this allowed, when can i RP this (the invasion is still to commence??), and will i be invaded if i try?

[Haken]

I DO remember an issue about it. I always RP according to the issues, but I can't speak for the others.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Haken (see edit history)

[Tagmatium Rules]

I have no problem with Genetically Modified troopers. But there are some issues to take into account:

 

1. They ain't supermen. Put a bullet into the right place, and they will die just like a normal person. They won't be able to grow back limbs (well, in theory they could, but it would take at least a month).

 

2. It would cost a hell of a lot of money to start such a programme, and a nation would not be able to bring these troops into action soon after announcing the programme. It take at least 10 (in game) years to be able to develope the programme to anywhere near "making super-people" level, and that might not be long enough.

 

3. Cloning Vats ? la Command and Conquor: Red Alert II are Future Tech. A GM soldier would have to be carried in the normal way, by implanting a genetically modified embro into a mother, and then it being born and developing in the standard way. Not sure if this should be faster or slower.

 

4. Possible advantages: Faster, stronger and much greater endurance/stamina than 'normal' humans. They also heal faster and are less prone to concussions and

other similar injuries (which does go back to my first point).

 

5. Number of redunant organs. This means wounds that would kill or badly injure 'normal' humans would not slow down a GM'er

 

You will have to announce this soon if you want to use it soon. I think there is at least one other nation that is either developing or has GM soldiers as well. Stick to these rough guidelines (you don't have to take it as Gospel, TCN) and you won't go wrong.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Ide Jima]

who is the other nation?

[The Chosen Nations]

I would like to thank Tag for the advice. How long is 10 InGame Years in RealLife?

 

Is the invasion of TCN still taking place?

If so, I cannot start my program for a bit.

[Akiiryu]

Okay.

 

TCN. Good Luck. I can't help but think this is another one of your attempts to become a power beyond your means. Now, I don't mean that in a nasty manner but, I doubt that TCN has the resources or expertise that is required to develop such troops. IF you try you're going to have to annouce it OOC and then rp a develop programme (gaining or training the right people, building or buying materials etc). Certian nations will probably twig to what you are trying and a number might not be happy/try and stop you. One of these nations would be the SPA. Not because (well not entirely because) it dislikes the TCN, but because the SPA has GM troopers (unofficially of course) and it is not about to give up its tactical advantage to an enemy. he SPA is known for its bio-technology (I hint at it in posts all the time...take a look) and thus has been able to develop its programme over time and in secret.

 

The numbers are limited (I haven't decided on exact figures, but they are below 10,000 - look at the SPA population in relation to that figure - GM soldiers will NEVER replace non-GM troops totally due to costs, time constraints and social questions). Before you say I am gming I will point out that I have bounced the idea around since I arrived here (in other words meet the time limits) - most of Tag's post on strengthen and weaknesses comes from ideas we have discussed.

 

Tag is right about the vats, I also think regrowing limbs is future tech. SPA troops grow the same way as everybody else. Indeed, they are the same as everybody else - bar their modifications (see 4 and 5). It should also be noted the SPA troopers are sterile - and unfortunate side effect of the modifications (although some might argue it is a delibrate modification...don't want to breed yourself about after all)

 

Also keep in my the religious implications of what you are doing...how would your population react? The existance of the GM soldiers in the SPA is not just a secret because of the tactical (NOTE THIS WORD) advantage it offers the SPA military.

[The Chosen Nations]

I am not trying to replacy my army with super soldiers, just infuse TCSF with a few.

[Akiiryu]

It will be...I am busy this week. Sorry. I will get to it.

[The Chosen Nations]

Huh?

[Akiiryu]

The invasion...

[Tagmatium Rules]

I don't see why the SPA would know about any other nation's GM'er programme. This is exactly the sort of thing a nation would shut up entirely about. The buying of materials and training/gathering of people could be explained away by saying that it is to be used for treating genetic disorders or for civilian use, like GM'ing animals for the perfect wool, meat or resistance to pesticide. Another nation would be hard-pressed to prove anything of the sort.

 

It is all about whether another nation can find out about it. Tagmatium has been developing plasma weaponry since the downing of an alien craft. This ain't the sort of thing you say to your population without causing something bordering on mass panic.

 

Also, you could think about the side affects of any modifications. Mucking about with genes isn't something to be taken lightly. Sterility is one such affect, others could be the inability to produce certain enzymes, or be able to manufacture skin pigment. That would be pretty cool, a corps of albino troopers... but I digress.

 

Do think about how your nation would react. (This isn't just to TCN, but to any others considering this sort of thing). Tagmatium, for example, is a fairly Christian nation, and the general population would react quite badly to such genetic modification, as they would think it going against the will of God.

 

Less drastic than Genetically Modified troopers would be soldiers that have under gone gene therapy, like in Metal Gear Solid. This would be a bit less expensive than a GM programme, and take less time to do (most of the technology is already in place). Each soldier would be given gene therapy, which would improve them subtly for a period of time before wearing off, as the cells that have taken the genes in die and are replaced. This would mean that each soldier needs repeated doses. The abilities, whilst better than an ordinary person, would be no-where near the levels of a proper GM'er. Also, due to the technology, this would probably be only available to the ?lite of the army, rather than the bog-standard infantry.

 

Also, I don't think it would be good for roleplay if more than a handful of nations had such technology (both gene therapy and genetic modification) available in their armies. This would give unfair advantage and may even lead to a sort of proliferation of this sort of tech, which would really be a bad thing. If you wish to do this sort of thing, think long and hard about it. Does it suit the character of my nation? Am I just doing it to "get one over" on my enemies? etc.

[The Chosen Nations]

I will wait until after the invasion unitl I begin my program.

[Tamurin]

Interesting idea.

 

I just see one problem: Time.

 

If you start today (2005) a program like that, I guess you'd be successful by 2015/2020, depending on money, support and good people.

 

At that time you could begin growing a number of prototypes, let's say 20, to see if the lab results are accurate and to work out last problems. A normal human takes ~ 20 years to fully mature. So, by the time of 2040 you're ready for "mass production", if the lab results were correct. Your soldiers would be ready by around 2060...

 

 

The idea is not bad, but I don't think it'd be possible to use it very soon. If we talk about 55 years of time, then the whole technological balance would break apart.

 

I'd recommend another way to improve your soldiers, like improved immune systems that make them more resistant against biological or chemical weapons - or cybernetic implants that help them in some way. This could go a lot faster.

[Ide Jima]

Good Point.

[Tagmatium Rules]

I'd recommend another way to improve your soldiers, like improved immune systems that make them more resistant against biological or chemical weapons - or cybernetic implants that help them in some way. This could go a lot faster.

Which is sort of the whole "gene therapy" thing. It does involve a lot less technology than proper bio-engineering. Basically, a beneficial gene is located in the genetic material of something, isolated and then inserted into a plasmid (which is a circle of bacterial DNA) using a whole load of clever enzymes. This is then put into a "vector", such as a genetically modified, harmless virus. This virus attempts to reproduce in the normal viral way, by injecting cells with copies of its own viral DNA. Because this virus is harmless, it does not reproduce and kill the cell, rather just inject the DNA. As it has the beneficial gene in it as well, this DNA combines with the host cell's DNA, allowing what ever good effects the selected gene had to be passed into that cell.

 

However, as it is not actually part of the host cell's real DNA, it is not passed on when the cell under goes mitosis, so another does is needed periodically. At the moment (in real life), this technique is being looked at to treat Cystic Fibrosis suffers by giving them the gene which makes the CFTR protein, as well as emphasemia suffers. It could, possibly, be used to give immunity to chemcial andbiological weapons, or even boost muscle strength and stamina. But this would be fairly advanced technology, but no-where near the 55+ plus years needed to make the GM humans. I'd say, as the technology is mostly already in place, 10-ish (game) years, maybe less. Depends how fast technology advances.

 

Cybernetic implants - I'd say this sort of thing is further away than GM humans, mainly because it would be very hard to get the human body to "mesh" with electrical implants. That said, I am not familiar with the technology in this area, so it could be much more plausible than I think.

 

But I cannot see this happening in 10-ish game years, like the above gene therapy. It would be much harder to make a fully functioning cyborg ( ) than a genetically modified human, methinks.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Tagmatium Rules (see edit history)

[Tamurin]

Well, don't think that. There are already pubs and discos where you get an implant with which you can pay. Some chip is implanted (via needle) under your skin and scanned each time you buy something. So it's not that far away.

 

I wasn't thinking of borg-like implants. More like implants that would be an effective Friend/Foe-detection system or something like that. I can also imagine a sensor implant that creates a little pain when it detects something - perhaps a small radar detection device or a magnetic field detector (indicates metal structure nearby, like a tank or a mine).

 

Something simple.

 

As for the 55+ years - I was thinking about TCN's "super soldiers", which would be more or less a "homo superior" and not a slightly altered homo sapiens (to stay on Star Trek terms: An augment or a Khan-like eugenian human). That would take at least half a century...

[Haken]

Well, don't think that. There are already pubs and discos where you get an implant with which you can pay. Some chip is implanted (via needle) under your skin and scanned each time you buy something. So it's not that far away.

Cool, where?

 

@Tag:

[The Chosen Nations]

I have never seen what Tam is talking about first hand, but I have seen them on an episode of CSI

[Adaptus]

damn it TCN, you stole my idea.

 

i was goin to have a GM program along with a hostile nuclear missle program, to show the hostility of the new government. but i was thinking more along the lines of, warhammer 40k space marines, for my GM blokes. but you got there quicker damn you.

 

anyways this looks like it could be an intresting topic, maybe me and you TCN could work together on this?

 

[Akiiryu]

Actually I got there first...the SPA already has GMs.

[Ide Jima]

I'm gonna steer clear of GM's.

[Adaptus]

oh i see. very nice

[Ide Jima]

I know. Isn't it wonderful?

[Tagmatium Rules]

I'd watch out for the Space Marine thing. That's alot of stuff that is really, really out of this sort of Tech, and I'm not talking about the armour. They've got a lot of extra organs and stuff. I've got an old issue of White Dwarf which lists them all. It'd either be the proper GM's or the Gene Therapy. It would be good if you and TCN did work together, as this sort of stuff in real life has come from several different nations or research centres either co-operating together or playing off against each other.

 

@Aki: Do you have any references from Nasi that I can see? I.E, can you point me in the direction of the threads?

[The Chosen Nations]

damn it TCN, you stole my idea.

 

i was goin to have a GM program along with a hostile nuclear missle program, to show the hostility of the new government. but i was thinking more along the lines of, warhammer 40k space marines, for my GM blokes. but you got there quicker damn you.

 

anyways this looks like it could be an intresting topic, maybe me and you TCN could work together on this?

Happy to. This would surly speed up both programs considerably.

 

If you aggree, then we should probably get under way pretty quickly.