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Orioni

[OOC] Scramble for Antargis

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You've done a good job starting this off.

I don't really have anything to contribute to the discussion of the first item, but I would like to voice my willingness in advance for becoming an impartial zone economic, scientific and legal manager. Since Girkmand does not have any stakes on Antargis, we could provide a platform for arbitration within the council should any conflicts of interest arise in the future.

I don't exactly have a party platform ready for this suggestion, but I would like to put this out there anyhow.

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Methinks the 2nd Antargic meeting has concluded.

Topics of discussion were:

  • a brief status update about the EOS icebreaker program;
  • we settled the Antargic territory into zone management; 
  • talks with the Aurelian League will start;
  • a first proposal for the next agenda in July.
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Thank you @Sunset Sea Islands. I used the absence as an opportunity to insert some uncertainty.

The EOS icebreakers also needed to be spotlighted. It is one required step before we can also establish an Antargic research station.

And, of course, the zone management. The Aurelians wanting a piece of the pie was to be expected. And I must admit, it makes the situation rather interesting. But I'm glad you agree with the final outcome. @Miiros and I had a private discussion about this. Whether or not we were going too far. In the end, we decided on sticking with our first proposal, and waiting for the inevitable pushback. Which, surprisingly, didn't come . But in your case, this doesn't really matter since you just joined EOS.

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Posted (edited)

Think it's about time we got the ball rolling on this again. 

I'd be happy to host a 3rd conference in Prymont. There's been plenty of time for IC writing, of which there seems to be little outside of the TCSI's Simon Station. An important topic for discussion could be the Mercier research base of @Shffahkia and @Fulgistan. Furthermore we could touch on zone management, which I think ties in with the aforementioned Mercier facility nicely - in that, as far as I'm aware, only the TCSI and EOS have management claims in Antargis. Fulgistan is a member of the TCSI but has constructed a separate station. Perhaps a deal to share the facility could be made, since Shffahkia and Fulgistan don't have claims of their own in Antargis?

I also see that @Girkmand expressed an interest in neutrally managing the economic, scientific, and legal interests in Antargis. I'd like to bring that to discussion if the interest is still there?

Does anyone else have any further input they'd like to make, any suggestions for what the conference could consist of? Paging @Orioni, @Sunset Sea Islands, @Iverica@Miiros, and @The Eurofuhrer.

I'd like to get the conference started around early May, which gives us around two weeks to plan things through.

Edited by Prymont
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I know I wasn't a part of the original discussions for Antargis, but I was wondering if people would be ok with me jumping in on this? I had thinking about an idea of having a research station down there for some time but knew there was some treaty stuff that had existed before.

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@Seylos I think it'd be justified for new countries to attend. I'd like to revisit zone management since nobody but O participated in the last thread, so there's room for your inclusion there. Plus, further signatories to the treaty are always welcome.

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Posted (edited)

I'll say that I'm not all that interested in continuing with Shffahkian involvement at all with Antargis and most likely will retcon the whole Mercier research base thingy on the basis that it hasn't really gone anywhere as initially planned. Also with the new Antargis, the placement of the base makes little sense.

My initial IC gripe with the treaty is that its prelude states that 

"The purpose of ARTHA is to allow the last untouched continent of Earth, Antargis, to remain free from harmful Human activities, devoid of Human ideologies, respected for its soil, conserved for its environment and brilliant for its future. All Signatories recognise the geographical integrity of the continent of Antargis and vow to respect it."

Yet it goes on to divide the continent which very much at the least is introducing human ideology into the continent. I also wanted to add a bit of regional interests into the mix as Aurelia and the Marenesias are the continents closest to Antargis, yet no nation from any of those continents was truly present in the talks nor were those continents addressed in any special manner. This also fell through as the Marenesia gang, also known as @Gallambria, @Salvia and @Batengdei Bulgenstaz, didn't show any interest. 

But overall I'll say that I am not interested in continuing my original personal pursuits in Antargis, rather I'll just have Shffahkia fall in line and be a normal signatory on the treaty. The base itself shouldn't be a problem as it was ever only announced. Sorry @Fulgistan

Edited by Shffahkia
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@Shffahkia Thanks for your input. Definitely solves a problem with the Mercier station.

Regarding your issues with the wording of the treaty, please feel free to send a delegate who can mention this; alternatively, if you don't feel like participating, it can be brought up otherwise. I was hoping to look into the treaty once more before the conference starts to get a hold on anything like this and really refine it / bring it up to date.

Additionally, I wanted to really focus on the division of the land. While it benefits me to have the TCSI effectively control a large portion of Antargis, I think it'd be much fairer globally for more nations to have a vested interest in Antargis, and could also lead to more RP opportunities as each nation / collective / whatever focuses on their piece of land. One idea is to separate it by timezones, thus having 24 equal segments administered by 24 different countries. We could also look at just 12 if there's less active interest. But revisiting how the continent is managed is a priority, I think.

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Posted (edited)

I don’t remember ever refusing to participate in this, although it’s entirely possible I did and I just missed it.
 

However, I would be interested in establishing a station or being part of one now.

Edited by Salvia
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I'd be happy to establish a new research station in the spirit of Mercier alongside the rest of the ISTC, to study the Antargic wildlife and weather patterns in a region other than surrounding Simon Station.

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I'd be interested in sending a delegate as well, although we'd probably have less lofty goals than the others.

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12 hours ago, Batengdei said:

Frankly as cool as the whole Antargis thing goes, I think I'll probably abstain. I'd rather put my emphasis on developing the region around Batengdei than sticking my thumbs into the Antargis pie, which would realistically be a logistical nightmare for my country. Also, given my current ongoing lapse of relative inactivity, now just isn't the time for me to take a dedicated role in any treaty.  If members of ICEB are interested in having an ICEB-specific treaty, then I would be willing to participate (lightly). Maybe I'll jump in on the fourth (?).

Marenesia gang member, signing off.

I think I might be in the same boat as Bat.

I mean, I'd like to. It'd suit both Tagmatium's sense of grandiosity and the pro-environmental policies, but I'm not sure I could commit to anything more than that. I have a tendency to bite off more than I can chew.

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IC thread here.

Writing arrivals is unnecessary unless you want to. Let's just dive straight into this.

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@Prymont Correct. My reply will be up later today. I blame that hat bloody broken keyboard for holding me back. I'll update this post to include the link.

What exactly is the end-goal we want to achieve with this 3rd RP?

  • OOC I'm open to re-dividing into 3 equal zones of 120° each.
  • IC there'll be some quid-pro-quo.

Edit. Phew. That took more time than I had thought. With phonecalls and neighbours interrupting every 30 minutes.

 

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1 hour ago, Prymont said:

@Salvia @Gallambria @Fulgistan @Variota @Acadia

It's been two weeks since the starter post went up. I'll be pressing on with post #2 shortly.

I also believe @Orioni has been working on a response :D 

Apologies, totally escaped my mind.  I’ll work on a post this week and hopefully get it done soon.

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@Orioni One of the biggest topics I want to discuss is the zone management. As I understand it, it's currently split into two between EOS & TCSI. Really I think that's quite unfair.

What would be fairer would be going with an idea discussed way back when of splitting the continent up into 24 equal zones, probably following the time zones. 12 could also work if there aren't enough nations signed onto the treaty to manage 24 individual zones. As much as it benefits Prymont for the TCSI to control a significant portion of the continent, overall it's far fairer to split it up equally between all signatories.

I'd also like to establish a permanent headquarters for the treaty - naturally, I think Prymont would be a fitting location but I'm open to suggestions from other attendees. 

I also have a bit of a bone to pick with EOS. On the forums they're described as the following:

Quote

The Entente of Oriental States (2006-present) is an international organisation and military alliance.

As per the treaty, particularly the prohibition of any military projects on the continent of Antargis, I believe that as described above, the EOS is breaching the treaty by definition. If you'd like to re-define the organisation then please do, but it'll be something else I'd like to bring up and discuss. The Trans-Continental Science Initiative, as per the name, is a scientific organisation with no military ties whatsoever. By my understanding, the same cannot be said for the EOS.

Finally, before any newcomers sign the treaty, I'd like to comb through it and make any changes needed based upon decisions made at the summit and work around any potential loopholes. Not that there are any, but I'm yet to thoroughly read through it so I'll have to sit down and do that before the end of the meeting.

To summarise:

  • Reorganise zone management into fair, equal segments
  • Allocate a HQ for the treaty
  • Investigate EOS' involvement as a military alliance
  • Cover up any holes in the wording of the treaty
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2 hours ago, Prymont said:

What would be fairer would be going with an idea discussed way back when of splitting the continent up into 24 equal zones, probably following the time zones. 12 could also work if there aren't enough nations signed onto the treaty to manage 24 individual zones.

Fair enough. I hope we can involve @Shffahkia and @Fulgistan. I'm unsure if the Aurelian League of ICEB want to get involved as well.

Right now, seeing who could be involved, we're looking at 3 zones. I expect TCSI retains the area including Simon Station. Aurelians would likely look south of their own continent for an area to claim. (I presume, but it's up to them to voice this.) For EOS I guess the area south of Europa would make most sense. With SSI being a member of both TSCI and EOS that creates some overlapping responsibility.

For example: 360° divided into 3 equal 120° zones gives us something like this. Sticking to the longitudes is easiest, since they've already shown on the map. It somehow looks unfair to Aurelians, but that peninsula has Simon Station on it. I presume we'll end up deciding on something like this, with the vertical lines being a point of contention. (4 zones of 90° is easy to draw as well. 5 zones of 72° is a bit trickier. 6 zones of 60° is easy again.)

map-of-eurth-20200510-topo.png

:pic:Please ignore the areas that aren't Antargis.

The IC reluctance to redraw is just added drama. OOC I'd be perfectly fine to see anyone who's interesting join the Antargic snowball game. Gobbling up the majority of Antargis was supposed to create drama. But unfortunately it didn't. That was a major surprise.  I hadn't expected other TCSI player to just lie back and take it. Imho some more animosity between blocks would be nice. The situation IC is way too friendly.

 

2 hours ago, Prymont said:

As per the treaty, particularly the prohibition of any military projects on the continent of Antargis, I believe that as described above, the EOS is breaching the treaty by definition. If you'd like to re-define the organisation then please do, but it'll be something else I'd like to bring up and discuss. The Trans-Continental Science Initiative, as per the name, is a scientific organisation with no military ties whatsoever. By my understanding, the same cannot be said for the EOS.

Quite right. The EOS is built on two elements: economic alignment and military cooperation. That dual use was intentional. But neither of these elements would fit the ARTHA. It's an oversight that works to my IC advantage. Stressing that fact will be painful to resolve.

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I really like the ongoing intrigue. @Prymont really had some great points, questioning the validity of EOS membership. That had me really trying to figure out a way out of it. The military aspect is certainly undeniable. But so far in RP, they only thing I did was build some icebreakers. No canons. No navy. No helicopter that actually work. I get the point we can't create military bases. But so far the EOS hasn't even set foot on Antargis. Just patrolling the Antargic coastal waters, for now.

Regarding the zone management I'm not sure where to take this. So I re-read the rules. I do believe you can't just partition the EOS zones and assign them without some drama. It's a nice poker card to hold. And while not actually doing much with it, only a fool would give that up without something in return. For example:

  • All shipping to and from Antargis? (See we can sneak a peak, of course.)
  • Research findings from all research stations in the EOS zones? (All the benefits, without any of the costs.)
  • Something else that your nation is willing to trade for frozen bedrock? (Perhaps the ARTHA HQ, wink wink, and tap your conversations.)
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